Working Hard vs. Trying Hard: Burnout, Branding & Building a Business That Lasts with Asia Dore

Listen on Apple Podcasts / Listen on Spotify

Are you working hard—or just trying hard? 👀

In this episode of the Burnout-Proof Podcast, I sit down with brand strategist Asia Dore to unpack one of the most overlooked truths about burnout and business: passion alone won’t save you.

Asia and I dig into the messy middle of pivots, why identity gets so tangled up in our work, and how a clear brand strategy can actually burnout-proof your business. Whether you’re a solopreneur, side-hustler, or corporate professional building your thought leadership, this conversation will give you the clarity and tools you need to stop spinning your wheels and start leading with intention.

✨ What you’ll learn in this episode:

• The difference between working hard (fulfillment + flow) vs. trying hard (exhaustion + performance).

• Why passion doesn’t protect you from burnout—and what actually does.

• How brand strategy acts as your North Star for pivots, decisions, and growth.

• The power of saying “no” when opportunities don’t align with your brand.

• Why everyone has a brand—even if you’re not an entrepreneur.

If you’ve ever felt like you’re chasing your tail in business, drowning in comparison, or questioning whether you’re “flaky” for pivoting, this episode is your permission slip to rethink it all.

🔗 Links + Resources:

• Join my Reset Challenge this week → [Click Here]

• Connect with Asia Dore + grab her free masterclass: asiadore.com/masterclass (use code burnoutproof)

• Follow me on Instagram → @coachellyn

🎧 Listen now and learn how to burnout-proof your business by owning your brand and working hard—with intention.

About Asia Dore

Asia Dore is a brand strategist on a mission to simplify and revolutionize the concept of branding so every entrepreneur can take full advantage of it to grow their business. Using her signature STRATEGY/AUDACITY™ Method, she's helped hundreds of business owners build effective and profitable brands that empower them to leverage their unique expertise.

Follow Asia: ⁠ Website | Instagram | YouTube | Facebook

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Ellyn Schinke (00:01.147)

Hello, Asia, welcome to the podcast, how are you?

Asia Dore (00:03.992)

What's up, Ellen? I'm so excited to be here. I have such a respect for your just practical and no bullshit approach to burnout, to business, to the podcast in general. So I'm really excited to talk to you today.

Ellyn Schinke (00:18.735)

I'm super excited. And I already can tell especially with how hard how hard recording is starting off here. We're gonna have some fun. We're gonna have some fun. And I am I'm super excited to dive into all of this with you because this is an aspect of like burnout proofing, especially from a business lens that I've never talked about before on this podcast. So I'm really excited to dive into it with you. So let's just start off with like high level Who are you? And tell us a little bit about your back.

Asia Dore (00:36.187)

yay!

Asia Dore (00:44.654)

I'm Asia Dorr. I'm a brand strategist and I help entrepreneurs build brands that position them as the experts they are. It's one thing to know that you're really damn good at what you do. It's another thing to be able to communicate it to other people so that they understand. I started my business back in 2014 as a photographer and that was kind of an accident. I had no...

inclination that I wanted to be an entrepreneur. It just, I got a camera because it sounded fun. And then people started asking, how much do you charge to take pictures? And a light bulb went off. I was like, this could be a thing. So then I made it a thing. I went through kind of all of the phases of specializing in different industries within photography. Eventually, I found my way to brand photography. And although I was working with all of these just totally brilliant

Ellyn Schinke (01:20.368)

Mm-hmm.

Asia Dore (01:37.582)

business owners who were so good at what they did, when I would ask them, okay, you know, we're planning your session, tell me about your brand, they had no idea what their brand actually was. So the strategy piece became a big part of my work as a photographer to make sure the photographs we were taking actually represented who they were and what they were about, what their brand was. And then, you know, I told you, I kind of had a total burnout moment and...

Ellyn Schinke (01:45.105)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (01:59.002)

Love that.

Ellyn Schinke (02:04.337)

I talked to a lot of photographers that have experienced burnout. That feels like a very burnout inducing industry to be in. Yeah.

Asia Dore (02:10.414)

It's hard work. It's hard work physically. It's hard work mentally, creatively, from an organization standpoint. So yeah, that makes sense that you've talked to a lot of photographers who have experienced that. yeah, once I hit that kind of roadblock and I figured it out, what I realized is that the strategy piece is what really excited me. And so in 2020, I dropped the photography and started focusing strictly on the strategy.

And that's what I'm still doing today.

Ellyn Schinke (02:41.755)

Love that. I love that so much. Okay. So tell me a little bit about the, since we kind of hinted at it already, tell me about the burnout experience as a photographer. And I'm curious, did that play into the pivot into brand strategy at all to try to move away from a burnout inducing industry? It doesn't sound like it did, but I'm curious if it did.

Asia Dore (03:02.018)

think I was lucky in that I found the thing that really excited me at about the same time and maybe it's actually being excited about something else what made me actually recognize that I was burned out at all because I don't think that I did.

Ellyn Schinke (03:15.473)

That's very fair. Yeah, yeah. Okay, sorry, continue. No, that's very fair.

Asia Dore (03:18.664)

that's okay. Yeah, I think that I was lucky in that aspect and then it's kind of hit me like, like I'm tired. Like my body is tired. Hauling around heavy equipment for a 10 hour wedding day is hard. Like that's hard work. And then editing and making creative decisions and socializing at the shoot, know, posing people and also being conversational and making people comfortable.

Ellyn Schinke (03:27.025)

Mm-hmm.

Asia Dore (03:41.41)

And that doesn't even count. Yeah, that doesn't even count all of the business side of things, right? The marketing and the sales and the emails and all of that stuff. So yeah, I got to that point where I was like, this just isn't fun anymore. This feels like work. I still loved my clients. I still loved what I did in theory, right? I didn't hate what I was doing, but I was just like, this isn't what I wanna do anymore. And that was really hard because for the past...

Ellyn Schinke (03:41.413)

That sounds exhausting.

Ellyn Schinke (03:59.151)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (04:07.643)

Mm-hmm.

Asia Dore (04:10.87)

Let me do math. Five, six years, I had built this entire business around the service of photography. And so I really felt like I was abandoning not only what I had built, but also part of myself, right? Like my identity was so enmeshed in what I was doing and the service I was providing. So that was a...

Ellyn Schinke (04:18.31)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (04:25.525)

OOF

Ellyn Schinke (04:29.585)

Can we pause and talk about that really quickly? Because I always find that piece of burnout super interesting is the identity that can get wrapped up in things. And you know, it's funny because we're gonna be talking about branding as a way to mitigate burnout, prevent burnout, if you will. And I'm sure there's an identity component to that, but like,

Asia Dore (04:34.527)

Yes.

Ellyn Schinke (04:55.641)

It's so interesting to me how when our identity can get wrapped up in something that can be a positive thing, but it can also be a negative thing. It can make pivots hard. It can make it really, really hard for us to like move on to something that is frankly more values aligned than whatever we might've been doing before. I always find that super interesting. like, was it hard to leave behind photography? Like what was that pivot like?

Asia Dore (05:21.998)

was the hardest part. We talk a lot about sunk cost fallacy, right? Like, well, I've put so much work in and I've invested so much time and money and energy. And if I stop now, then I'm really, like, I'm not respecting that. I'm abandoning all of the work. But yeah, it's so much more than that when you're an entrepreneur who actually gives a shit about the work that you're doing, right?

Ellyn Schinke (05:27.707)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (05:38.297)

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (05:45.125)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Asia Dore (05:47.884)

Because it does it. Our businesses become such a part of ourselves. And you also hear like, like your business isn't you. You need to have a separate work life balance, all of that. But like that has never really rung true for me. I care a lot about my work. And I know that's not for everybody and that's OK. But I think to just say generalized statement, your work isn't your life, I don't think that's fair to those of us who like working.

Ellyn Schinke (06:02.939)

Same.

Ellyn Schinke (06:14.541)

I agree. I agree.

Asia Dore (06:15.352)

who like what we do, who are trying to use our businesses to, like I'm not ashamed to say it even though it's cliche, but like to change the world. I'm trying to change the world with my business, right? Not save the world, but change the world. And I know I'm not alone in that. I mean, you're just talking to you right now. You're like, yes, I get it.

Ellyn Schinke (06:24.953)

Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (06:33.849)

Yeah, well, like I actually feel like I've talked to so many people who I would consider to be like my ideal clients, the people that I do this work for. And the common thread is don't tell me to work less. Don't tell me to do less. Don't tell me to like to dull my ambition. My work in so many ways is an extension of myself. It's a way in which I show love. It is a way in which like I pour into other people is through the work that I do.

So like, definitely, am a believer that passion doesn't prevent burnout. I think that is a common misconception that we were sold for a very, very long time. So it's like, don't think that just because you switched to doing work that you really, really enjoy doing and you love doing that suddenly burnout's not gonna become an issue. But simultaneously, I feel like telling personalities like ours, whether this is an Enneagram three thing or I'm learning about human design, if it's a projector thing, I don't know. But like, whatever it is,

Don't tell those people to separate themselves from their work because honestly that does nothing but piss me off and make me feel like you don't get me.

Asia Dore (07:43.33)

Yeah, because it really does. And like what you said about the messaging around like, work less, earn more. It's like, I don't want to work less. Like I'm not in business so that I can, you know, sit by the pool and be on my laptop for a cute like one hour a week. I actually want to do this stuff. Fun fact, I'm also a human design projector. There's probably a little bit of, you know, some commonality in there. Maybe it is.

Ellyn Schinke (07:49.253)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (08:01.165)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (08:08.497)

Maybe it is, because I'm finding more and more that I am a projector through and through. Like, I am a projector. My friend sends me shit all the time in my DMs, and she's like, this made me think of you. She sent me one this morning, and she's like, how projectors flirt, and I was just like, yeah, accurate.

Asia Dore (08:14.044)

that's fun!

Asia Dore (08:25.818)

my gosh, well, I don't follow you on Instagram yet, but I'm gonna have to just so I can send you the projector memes. yeah. We're gonna be best friends, whether you like it or not. But yeah, no, I think it's such an important part of the conversation that is really missing from mainstream messaging when it comes to business. We don't wanna work less. We want the work that we do to...

Ellyn Schinke (08:29.659)

literally followed you this morning. So we're gonna we're gonna be following each other very soon.

Ellyn Schinke (08:38.723)

Whether we like it or not, yes.

Mm-hmm.

Asia Dore (08:52.158)

be more effective and efficient and impactful, but that doesn't mean we want to work less. And I also, I hope this tangent's okay, but I also just had an epiphany. I had an epiphany recently because I was really struggling with this like working hard thing, especially as a projector, because we're not supposed to, right? I was really struggling with that. And what I realized is that there is such a difference between working hard and trying hard.

Ellyn Schinke (08:54.191)

Yes.

Ellyn Schinke (09:01.709)

tangent away.

Ellyn Schinke (09:10.403)

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Ellyn Schinke (09:21.562)

Oh-ho-ho-ho.

Asia Dore (09:21.718)

When I... Right? I was like, my gosh. When I try hard, that feels gross. That feels exhausting, it feels like I'm not enough, it feels like I'm never going to have enough, it feels like nothing I do is successful. Like, all of those things. But when I...

Ellyn Schinke (09:39.109)

Yeah, it feels like performing. performing is what I thought of when you said try hard.

Asia Dore (09:44.616)

Yes, but when I am working hard, to me, that's just such a different thing because that's where the flow comes in. That's where we have goals, we have our plan, and we just show up and we do the shit and we get the shit done, and then the things happen for us, right? So yeah, the trying hard... Yes, fulfillment, feels meaningful, it feels like you can stop work at the end of the day and be like, I accomplished something, not because of the things...

Ellyn Schinke (09:52.111)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (09:56.813)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It feels like fulfillment.

Ellyn Schinke (10:12.271)

I did that.

Asia Dore (10:13.368)

that I, not because of the things even that I did, but because of how it felt as I was doing it, right? So yeah, also a distinction if that helps anyone listening between trying hard and working hard, yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (10:16.721)

Yeah, yeah, true.

I love that. I love that. Well, and it's funny because this is my own tangent and this is literally happening in the last 24 hours. So this is kind of cool to talk about it with you. I had an aha recently that like, which is something I feel like goes against a lot of the like coaching industry, like the coaching industry, we're supposed to be like, we're service providers, we are providing a service. And I had an aha yesterday, that the fact of the matter is I

feel the best and I feel the most aligned and I feel like I'm being true to myself and true to my values. When I'm doing the work that a lot of people don't like to do when I'm like at the computer building shit when I'm like, like, never like figuring out systems and like creating templates and whatnot. And I don't get me wrong, I love my clients and I love some of the face to face interaction. But the vast majority of my day to day I actually don't want to be like that. I don't like being locked into my calendar. I don't like having a calendar full of appointments. I like having

a completely empty day where I can just dive into a project and it's making me rethink a lot of things about my offer suite. And I literally had a long conversation with Chachi PT the other day about like, am I being flaky and pivoting again? Or am I making decisions that feel more aligned? I, you know, stepping into like Coach Ellen 3.0 and like CEO, like next level for myself?

And it's funny how we question ourselves. guess that's part of the reason why I'm telling this story is I think we question ourselves a lot when we are making pivots, especially if it's like a pivot that follows a pivot that follows a pivot. Because I think that's the messy side of burnout recovery, especially when it comes to burnout recovery and making career decisions that we don't talk about enough is it is not like, I had this aha, and suddenly I'm in this new career and everything sunshine and rainbows.

Ellyn Schinke (12:13.593)

It's usually like I had this aha and then I had this other aha and then I completely started doubting myself and then I had this other other aha and now I'm going in this direction like it is fucking messy. It's so messy. it's not paved. It's like it is a gravel pot holy like road that maybe has branches growing across it because nobody's been down that road in a really long time.

Asia Dore (12:24.878)

The road to success... The road to success is not paved. It's not paved.

Asia Dore (12:42.252)

Yeah, yeah, no, I hear you. And it's so difficult, I think, because it can feel like, at least initially, a really fine line between do I have shiny objects syndrome am I flaky? Am I just not willing to commit? Am I procrastinating? Or am I experimenting strategically and that's okay?

Ellyn Schinke (12:50.289)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (12:59.438)

Yeah.

Asia Dore (13:04.362)

And that's one of the most powerful things I believe about having a solid brand strategy is that it really acts as a north star to where you're going, long-term, but I think even short-term what it does is acts as a filter to say,

Ellyn Schinke (13:04.386)

Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (13:11.291)

Good pivot back, because that was where I was going to pivot back. Yes!

Ellyn Schinke (13:18.916)

Yeah.

Asia Dore (13:28.332)

Okay, I have this opportunity. Let me filter it through the lens of my brand to see if it makes sense. Let me filter it through my values to see if it makes sense. Let me filter it through the lens of my message to see like, okay, if I'm gonna, this kind of meta, but if I'm gonna go on Ellen's podcast and talk about burnout, how am I gonna do that while also talking about brand strategy? And because I understand my brand strategy, I'm able to talk about what I do through the lens of so many different perspectives.

Ellyn Schinke (13:34.671)

Ooh.

Hmm.

Asia Dore (13:57.942)

And that's how I am able to never shut the fuck up about brand strategy is because I know how to say the same thing over and over and over again in different ways. So when you have that solid brand strategy, yeah, it really acts as a filter to bring it back. It really acts as a filter to be able to experiment strategically because that's the only way you're gonna grow as a business owner. We have to evolve.

Ellyn Schinke (14:08.081)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (14:24.549)

Mm-hmm.

Asia Dore (14:24.654)

The world changes, our communities change, we change, our businesses have to change with us. So the more we're able to change in a strategic and intentional way, the more our decisions are going to feel, I don't want to say better, they're going to, well, yeah, they will, they'll feel better than just being like, I want to try this thing. I don't know, it's whatever. I'm just going to try it. It's like, no, I'm going to try this because X, Y,

Ellyn Schinke (14:30.257)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (14:36.859)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (14:43.16)

There.

Ellyn Schinke (14:51.555)

Yeah, yeah, I love that so much. And what you're talking about is I love that you use the analogy North Star a little bit ago, because I've always I haven't necessarily talked about that from the perspective of branding, which is why I'm excited to like have this conversation today. But I have talked about it from the perspective of like values. It's why even though I'm a very systems forward burnout coach.

I know mindset plays a role. know self care plays a role. That may not be like the thing that I focus on the majority of the time, but I know they're important. And I know values work in particularly is so damn important. But so I always used to say like values are your North Star. That's your compass. That's your guiding light to be like, Okay, am I on track? But bringing branding into that I feel like that is that's a way I've never thought about it before. So I really, really like that. So

Tell me what are the ways, especially as you, if we kind of come back to your story from before, as you made this pivot into branding, in what ways did this pivot start to help you prevent burnout? And how has that kind of informed your own journey as a brand strategist and in the support that you provide your clients?

Asia Dore (16:03.084)

Okay, I just had like a firework explosion of things that I wanted to say.

Ellyn Schinke (16:07.131)

Okay, okay, okay, we can come back to the question. We can come back to the question. What's the firework? Tell me, tell me, tell me.

Asia Dore (16:14.008)

Well, first of all, I just want to say that when you use values as a North Star, you are not wrong. Brand values are a core component of a brand strategy, very, very much so. And I think that most people will find that even as they change and grow as people, even as their business changes, maybe they pivot, maybe they move to a totally different industry, maybe they start a new business, their core values are pretty much going to stay the same.

Ellyn Schinke (16:22.286)

of brass strategy. Okay.

Ellyn Schinke (16:39.92)

Yeah.

Asia Dore (16:40.088)

They might get tweaked a little bit depending on who their audience is, but for the most part, our values are just such a core part of us that they're gonna stay the same. So I just wanna say like, you're not wrong about that.

Ellyn Schinke (16:43.345)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (16:48.237)

Mm-hmm. I find like the hierarchy might change. Like I always say that there's like a prioritization to our values in like different parts of our lives and like as you change seasons in your life, the hierarchy might change. Like maybe this value that used to be at the top becomes a little bit less important than another value. So it's like, yeah, the core might stay the same. You might like slightly change the language or the way in which you describe that value. But the hierarchy is what I find changes the most as we kind of go through life. But yes.

Asia Dore (17:15.192)

Totally, yeah, I love that perspective. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, in terms of my experience with burnout and pivoting, like I said, 2019, I was like, okay, do I hate this? Like, why does this feel like work? What's going on? I'm not excited about this.

Ellyn Schinke (17:21.361)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (17:29.231)

You had good timing if you left photography in 2019.

Asia Dore (17:33.484)

my gosh, I know. I feel for all the photographers who struggled through that, yeah. It's kind of unfair actually, like for all of us, but especially in-person businesses. I really admire anyone who went through that as an in-person business. Shout out to the COVID survivors, not just the actual COVID, but also the state of the world.

Ellyn Schinke (17:38.34)

OOF

Ellyn Schinke (17:42.918)

Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (17:46.961)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (17:51.803)

Yeah, shout out to all of you guys.

Ellyn Schinke (18:00.577)

Yeah, shit like the in person businesses who survived COVID shout out to you guys.

Asia Dore (18:06.166)

Yeah, for sure. So yeah, I hit that point, I hit that roadblock. And once I let myself just do it, once I let go of this idea that I was abandoning my past, my hard work part of myself, it actually was really easy to pivot into this new thing. And the reason, I mean, I might be biased, but I feel that the reason it was so easy for me to do that

Ellyn Schinke (18:21.285)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (18:27.248)

Mm-hmm.

Asia Dore (18:36.192)

is because over the previous five, six years, I hadn't just been building a photography business, I had been building the Asia Door brand. Like that's what made it so simple. Because there were people in my audience, my, I mean, I'm sure I had some people who were like, like I don't need her anymore, right? Like unfollow, unsubscribe, whatever. But it was so interesting because not only did my online community really support me in this pivot,

Ellyn Schinke (18:45.478)

Ellyn Schinke (18:54.35)

Yeah.

Asia Dore (19:04.118)

A lot of those people that were already in my audience had never wanted to work with me as a photographer. But after I pivoted, now I'm offering something relevant to them. So now they're working with me, right? Doing this new thing. Which was fantastic because I didn't feel like I had to burn it all down and start over. I was just like, hey guys, this is what we're doing now. And to be fair, yes, to be fair, I didn't pull the band-aid off. I wasn't like...

Ellyn Schinke (19:23.217)

Mm-hmm. Felt more organic, yeah.

Asia Dore (19:30.21)

Monday I was offering photography, Tuesday I wasn't anymore. I let people know, I eased into it. I kind of offered both things at once. But yeah, I really attribute that to the fact that I built a brand instead of just building a business. So now I'm forgetting your original question.

Ellyn Schinke (19:33.713)

It's like a slow shift, yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (19:49.861)

Well, guess that so you actually answered part of the original question, which was like about how like how did it feel going from being a burned out photographer to like the brand strategist side of things and in what ways did that help you overcome the burnout side of things? So that was the first part of the question. And then the second part was about how does that inform how you support clients now?

Asia Dore (19:54.382)

Okay.

Asia Dore (20:07.49)

Yes.

Asia Dore (20:13.518)

Yeah, like I said, it became really easy once I just let myself do it, once I stopped talking myself out of it. And the thing that made it additionally easy, not just externally, but internally, was that I was really excited about this new work that I was doing. And what I realized is that one of the main reasons I was burnt out, not just that I was physically and mentally tired, it was also because I was at a point where

Ellyn Schinke (20:21.521)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (20:29.093)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (20:34.353)

Mm-hmm.

Asia Dore (20:43.432)

I no longer wanted to create for other people. I wanted to guide people as they created for themselves. So it's a really a completely different skill set. I mean, I had worked with people before, right? Obviously I still was helping them decide, I'm making decisions. What do you want your photos to look like? How do you want them to feel, et cetera. But it's such a different thing to be in the service where you're creating for people versus helping and guiding them to create.

Ellyn Schinke (20:50.939)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Asia Dore (21:13.432)

for themselves. that really, yes, and I'm glad that I realized that because I was like, yes, that's what it is. And so when I, as I support clients now, I really take that into account. I really don't believe that you can build a brand for someone else. I, like, don't get me started on using AI to build your brand, right? Like, like a robot does not know more about you than you. We need to

Ellyn Schinke (21:15.639)

That's a cool distinction.

Ellyn Schinke (21:33.403)

Mm-hmm.

Asia Dore (21:42.934)

We need to figure out who you are, what you want, what you want in the world, how you want things to be different, the things that piss you off, the challenges that you've faced and how you can help other people. We need to figure out all of those things and really bring cohesion to them. That's the only way you're going to build a brand that really stands the test of time and doesn't rely on trends and aesthetics and what everybody else is doing. We need to stand out right now. This is what allows us to create sustainability.

Ellyn Schinke (22:05.979)

Mm-hmm.

Asia Dore (22:11.264)

as it relates to branding. So I take that into account when I help people build their brands. I don't do it. I can't do it for them, right? I'm just there to guide. I'm there to ask the right questions. I'm there to say, hey, have you thought about this? I'm here to say, hey, you're using industry jargon that nobody except people in your industry understands. Let's make this a little bit more simple, right? Let's simplify your messaging. So from the perspective of how I help people now,

Ellyn Schinke (22:13.829)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (22:19.633)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (22:23.717)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (22:33.723)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (22:39.569)

Mm-hmm.

Asia Dore (22:40.394)

it really comes down to that. It's really more just guiding.

Ellyn Schinke (22:42.321)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Love that. And I will say, I think she's making a really good point about because like I'm a chat GPT user. I love me some chat GPT. I use chat GPT daily for my business. And I definitely feel like we need to make the distinction between I didn't have chat GPT decide anything about my brand. That was me. That was self-generated. That was work I did with my brand strategist last fall prior to you and I meeting. But

What we do, what you can use technology for is you can use technology to remind you of what your brand is when you lose track of it. So like when I have a custom GPT that I'm using, I'm using that with all documentation stuff that I have prepared about my brand. And it is just keeping that in line when I'm writing copy, when I'm writing Instagram captions, it is using my guidance to create content, but it.

keeps me from having to constantly be like, wait, what was that messaging that I really liked? Because it's all captured inside of the GPT. So like you can fuse both together. I just wanted to dive into that a little bit further because I feel you're not necessarily saying don't use technology. You're saying technology shouldn't be the creator of your brand. You are the creator of your brand.

Asia Dore (23:57.74)

Yeah, I'm saying if you're relying on ChatGBT to create anything as it relates to your business or your brand because you don't know what to say on Instagram this week or you don't know the best way to reply to this inquiry. If you don't inherently know those things and you're relying on external, whatever it is, even if it's another person, then we have an issue with your brand strategy. Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (24:07.345)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (24:12.005)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (24:17.477)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (24:26.15)

Mm-hmm.

Asia Dore (24:26.264)

There's a big difference between utilizing a tool and relying on a tool. And I also like what you said about you are guiding it. It's not guiding you. That's a huge distinction. Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (24:29.317)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely feel like that can be the one place we go wrong with like a a chat GPT. Awesome. OK, so let's kind of come to the fundamental thing that we want to talk about today. I feel like we did 20 minutes of like leading up to this, which is so cool. How can how does like building a strong brand foundation, how does that prevent or remedy burnout?

Asia Dore (25:05.453)

Yeah, I mean, actually, I think we have kind of talked about all those things, which is cool. This is like a really extended 20 minute drum roll. But we've actually touched on a lot of those things, especially when I said about it being your North Star and your filter for making decisions. I think those are the two biggest things. And then the other thing I mentioned was the trends. What's going on? What's everybody else doing? How do I? It's so ironic because we want to stand out, right?

Ellyn Schinke (25:17.947)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (25:27.899)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (25:34.095)

Mm-hmm.

Asia Dore (25:34.72)

our ideal clients to notice us. want to cut through the noise and all of that. But then we also are like, I like that color palette. So I'm going to you. I'm going to copy that. Like, I like what this person said. So I'm going to say that. And then in the process, if we're doing what everyone else is doing, we're just going to we're just going to fade away, right back into the noise. That's very ironic. It's also totally normal, especially because brand strategy isn't necessarily an easy thing to do. It takes a lot of

Ellyn Schinke (25:36.785)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (25:43.953)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (25:47.781)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (25:52.193)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (25:57.774)

Yeah

Asia Dore (26:03.214)

reflection and organization and just figuring out all of the stuff that's all in here and communicating it in a very clear and concise way. So it's not easy. So it makes sense that we gravitate towards those trends, right? This is working for someone else, so I'm going to adopt it. But when you have your really solid brand strategy, it allows you to just stay in your own lane and do your own thing and not really give a fuck about what everyone else is doing.

Ellyn Schinke (26:13.177)

Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (26:16.825)

Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (26:27.857)

Mm-hmm.

Asia Dore (26:32.416)

at all because you know what you're here to do. You know what problem you're here to solve. You know what you want to say. You know what your ideal clients need to hear. You know who your ideal clients are. You know all of these things so inherently that the rest of this stuff just doesn't matter. From then, it's just a matter of working with someone like you, Ellen, where it's like, okay, now I know all of this stuff. The next step is to set up the systems to where I can do it easily and consistently.

Ellyn Schinke (26:32.432)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (26:41.989)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (26:46.405)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (26:59.907)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Asia Dore (27:00.672)

all the time and not get burnt out, right? But if you try to do the system stuff first, you're gonna be back at square one where you're like, okay, I have all my social media posts scheduled, but I don't really know what I wanna say in them. Like, I don't know really what I'm doing here. I don't know, I don't know anything. And it's not really that you don't know anything, it's that you know too much. That's what makes you an expert.

Ellyn Schinke (27:24.109)

God, is that not true?

Asia Dore (27:25.954)

That's what makes you an expert. You have all of the solutions in your head. You have all of the offers. You have all of the knowledge and skills and experience and methods and modalities.

Ellyn Schinke (27:34.427)

Well, I think you can flip it to like, you know too much in the sense that like you have all of this knowledge and all of these modalities and all the things that you can do. But also it could be like, you know too much because you are getting absolutely flooded by all of the other stuff that you were talking about, the trends and so on and so forth. Yeah. So like even to tie what you're saying into like burnout framework and burnout language that I use when I'm talking about burnout, the values and stuff being your North star and your compass, that's going to stave off emotional burnout.

the having the thing to filter all of your decision making through, that's gonna help stave off overwhelm burnout. Honestly, a lot of the stuff that you talked about toward the end there is gonna help prevent overwhelm burnout. But I actually feel like maybe, and this is a great opportunity to pivot into some of the other questions that you dropped of like things that we could talk about today, is the authority piece. Because I think when...

That's perhaps the in the long run for an entrepreneur. So this is very much stepping into the space where we're talking to the solopreneurs, the small business owners who might be listening right now. If you're entrepreneurially curious, don't worry, this still applies to you. like eventually you're going to get to a point where burnout is, I think burnout prevention for entrepreneurs is you want to get to a point where you don't feel like you're chasing your tail all the time. You don't want to feel like you are running around like a chicken with your head cut off all the time. And

How does brand strategy start to help with that? does brand strategy start to help with things like lead generation and people being able to recognize your authority even when you might be dealing with some mega imposter syndrome? Like in what ways does brand strategy actually help build that business foundation that just makes business easier, not even just burnout easier, but like your career and your business easier.

Asia Dore (29:27.638)

My favorite thing about brand strategy is it makes the work that you do more efficient in a lot of ways. But the biggest, most impactful way is that it forces you to communicate everything we just talked about that's all in your head. It forces you to communicate that in a really clear and concise way. And yes, I am talking about messaging when I say this.

Ellyn Schinke (29:49.787)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Asia Dore (29:53.314)

How do we take all of the stuff that makes you an expert, that feels like a big jumbled mess in your brain, not to mention everything that you are externally influenced by, like the trends and what everyone else is doing, how do we take all of that and comparison and the imposter syndrome and all this stuff, how do we filter through that, how do we refine it, how do we distill all of that down into...

Ellyn Schinke (30:04.369)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And comparison and all of that other crap. Yeah.

Asia Dore (30:19.432)

a very clear and concise message that's easy for people to understand. I see so many experts all the time who truly are experts really struggle with this. They struggle to connect with the right people. They struggle to even get the attention they deserve simply because they don't know how to explain what they do in a way that's gonna make other people give a shit about it, right? Like you can be the best ever at what you do, but if people don't understand what it means for them, they're just not gonna care. It's not...

personal, they're just, all busy, right? We got things to do. We like, the phone's ringing, the dryer's done, we have an appointment. So we just need to make it, like as a service, we need to make it really easy for people to understand what it is that we do. So brand strategy allows us to do that because it forces you to, again, distill all of that down into like the core, basic foundational components. From then we can build up.

We can explore other things, but we still have that foundation there. So in terms of other people understanding what we do, in terms of lead generation, terms of audience growth, visibility, all that stuff that you mentioned, being an authority, you have to show up and be able to talk about what you're an authority in, in a way that people actually understand. Without all of the industry jargon, without word vomiting for half an hour, we have to...

Ellyn Schinke (31:15.141)

Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (31:28.229)

Yeah, being an authority, that kind of stuff, yeah.

Asia Dore (31:44.248)

to bring it down clear and concise. So that's the first part of my answer. The second part of my answer in terms of building authority is that, again, it acts as that filter, not just for things that we say and do, but also for the opportunities that come to us, right? There are so many opportunities that we should be saying no to, whether it's, you wanna be a guest on my podcast or do you wanna teach this workshop?

Ellyn Schinke (31:45.915)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (32:00.152)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (32:10.481)

Mm-hmm.

Asia Dore (32:12.718)

The example.

Ellyn Schinke (32:13.937)

great example too. If we need a great example of this, I have a great example of this.

Asia Dore (32:16.75)

Oh, I was just gonna say an example. I wanna hear yours.

Ellyn Schinke (32:22.499)

just thinking of, and this is one of those things that I kind of felt like an asshole at the time. So had a friend from college who reached out about me speaking at an event that he was having. The event was public sector. So government and public companies were going to be at this event. And immediately that probably should have made it a no for me because the fact of the matter is even on the corporate side of my business, when I do do corporate speaking and training, I'm more in the private sector. I really only

done anything in the public sector maybe once, twice, if that. Like public sector is not where I thrive. And yet, this was a friend from college. I wanted to do him a solid. I had been kind of having a slow speaking season. So that scarcity mindset kicked in and I said yes. And in the grand scheme of things, we had a mega miscommunication about compensation for the event. They were asking for a lot without wanting to financially compensate me for what they were gonna compensate me for. And the fact of the matter was I...

ended up bailing on the opportunity literally weeks before the event, which made me feel like an absolute dick. But the fact of the matter is I shouldn't have said yes to it in the first place. I am not a public sector speaker. The stuff that I do is not public sector. The stuff that I frankly, I've been pivoting and moving away from speaking altogether because I like to work with solopreneurs and entrepreneurs. is those people have my heart. I love it. Like

So I should have seen the red flags for what they were early in the conversation, but I didn't. And I ended up kind of getting myself into a situation that made me feel like an asshole in the long run because it wasn't aligned. I should never have said yes. I should have said, thanks for thinking of me, but I don't feel like this is where I don't think this is going to be a fit for me. And I don't think it's going to be a fit for your people.

Asia Dore (34:07.672)

Well, that's gonna be a lesson that really pays off in the future. I'm sorry you to learn the hard way, but we all do, right? But that is a perfect example because we think of it as like, we don't wanna dilute our message or dilute our authority by showing up in all of these different places in all of these different ways. And that is true, right? We want people to know us for the one specific thing. That's what branding is all about. But it's also...

Ellyn Schinke (34:09.681)

it's okay. It happens. Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (34:29.339)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (34:34.725)

and then.

Asia Dore (34:37.198)

like a disservice to say yes to opportunities that aren't super aligned. It's a disservice to yourself, obviously, because you didn't, you're like, I don't know, this feels off. It's a disservice to the person who's inviting you because your heart's not really in it and it feels off. And it's also a disservice to the people that you would be speaking to because your heart's not really in it and it feels off. Additionally, all comes back.

Ellyn Schinke (34:48.485)

Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (34:53.733)

Yep.

Ellyn Schinke (35:01.539)

Isn't it funny how it all comes back to your heart's not really in it. So this is why you should say no.

Asia Dore (35:07.362)

mean, really, because you're not gonna show up as your most best, energetic, fully present self. And people are gonna feel that and you're gonna feel it. And it's also really, if we zoom way out, it's a disservice to your mission as a business owner. Anything that you say yes to that isn't leading you one step closer to actually achieving your business or your brand mission is a disservice to that mission because it's just a detour. Not all detours are bad.

Ellyn Schinke (35:08.375)

It is!

Ellyn Schinke (35:13.103)

Yeah. Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (35:23.729)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (35:29.381)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (35:33.531)

Mm-hmm.

Asia Dore (35:36.93)

But for the most part, if you're making a decision because you're like, well, I should do this. It'd be great for visibility. I don't know. I'm doing them a favor. Whatever it is, if it's not like, fuck yes, this makes sense, it has to be a no. Like, ironically, the way that we are able to have a business that is always yes, yes, yes is by saying no, no, no.

Ellyn Schinke (35:59.184)

Yeah. Well, what it makes me think of too, because I do think this is part of where people get stuck. And frankly, I see it. I'm seeing it currently with people who are inside of my Burnout Proof Business program is I think it's, yes, we're looking for the, we're looking for the fuck. Yes. We're looking for the thing that is so aligned and we, and all the no's that we're going to say along the way. Yes. And we also have to make sure that we are making decisions with like for, for that moment. Like I think sometimes we get so stuck in

trying to make a decision for like two, three, five years from now that we don't make the decision. And I think that is sometimes what we have to think of as, okay, based on the data I have now, based on the understanding of like my vision, what my brand is at this moment, this feels like the best decision and not letting analysis paralysis become stuckness.

if that makes sense. So I do think that's like the one caveat of what you're saying is that I will say, yes, make the decision that's aligned with your brand. Look for the hell yes moment, but don't get so stuck in, this the right decision? Well, I don't know what I'm going to want like five years from now that you don't make a decision.

Asia Dore (37:06.344)

amen to that. Yes, and thank you. Thank you for bringing that because like I said, not all detours are bad, right? Even if you say yes to something that maybe should have been a no, you're gonna learn from it. If you are a person who's really guided by your intuition, this is especially true because it's gonna give your brain more information. And in the future, you're gonna be able to say, okay, like how did it feel last time? What's different? And I'm not saying you need to like...

Ellyn Schinke (37:08.081)

You

Ellyn Schinke (37:13.999)

Yes.

Ellyn Schinke (37:18.554)

Yes.

Asia Dore (37:32.75)

Use your brain to analyze every decision, but it does help when it comes to I'm in a position where I have to make a decision Is it gonna be yes or no? We like it's all it's all learning like if I said no to every single thing as It happened. I wouldn't be where I am now Same if I said yes to everything right so trust your path for sure. Thank you

Ellyn Schinke (37:37.285)

Yes.

Ellyn Schinke (37:41.463)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (37:52.337)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I like your dinosaur mug. I really like your dinosaur mug. Yeah. Well, I had a draw to this. I'm glad I remembered this because we were talking branding before. For those of you who are more in corporate right now and you're listening to this conversation wondering how the hell does this apply to me, the aha that I had as we were talking is actually thought leadership. Thought leadership is something that brands do, is something that small businesses and small business owners do.

But also I would argue that it is becoming more and more important, even if you are a corporate employee, that to some extent your brand as a corporate employee who is not a small business owner is your thought leadership, your expertise, your authority. You're putting that out into the world too, on LinkedIn, in the stuff that you're sharing. You do have a brand.

Essentially what I'm saying you thought leadership is becoming even more important for people who aren't necessarily businesses So it's not like what we're talking about isn't applicable to you. It's just different It's not necessarily like you're doing social media content marketing You are sharing stuff on LinkedIn and making connections on LinkedIn You are probably getting maybe getting headhunted or getting recruited or whatever headhunted is such a weird word every single time I say it I'm just like

Asia Dore (39:14.242)

It is.

Ellyn Schinke (39:16.113)

That's aggressive. But like maybe people are seeking you out and they're doing that because of your brand. So it's like, don't think if you're listening to this, that just because we are talking about a lot of language that could be considered for businesses and entrepreneurs, don't think that it's not applicable to you because the fact of the matter is you do have a brand.

Asia Dore (39:37.486)

everything has a brand. You tell me something, it has a brand. A brand is just a reputation. A brand is just how people feel about you. Brand strategy, and thank you for bringing that up, brand strategy is applicable in so many different ways. And even if you are not trying to leave your company, maybe you're very happy at your company, you still have a brand within that company. Even like whether you're in a leadership role or not, right? And when you...

Ellyn Schinke (39:42.608)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (39:52.689)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (40:00.912)

Mm-hmm.

Asia Dore (40:07.576)

Pay attention to your brand strategy when you figure out, well, maybe, okay, let me back up. I said your brand is your reputation, right? At the end of the day, we can't control our reputation. We can't control our brand. We can't control what other people think about us, which is sort of like a...

Ellyn Schinke (40:13.253)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (40:21.541)

Sorry, I literally just had like an Ask Taylor Swift moment.

Asia Dore (40:26.008)

What?

Ellyn Schinke (40:27.129)

Like, well, just like she has, she has an album called Reputation, which she released. She released not long after her whole like Kim and Kanye situation. Like ask Taylor Swift. Like everybody can hate you or, and you can just decide you're going to work around it. Like it's, it's yeah, that's, where my brain went was ask Taylor Swift.

Asia Dore (40:31.479)

yes, duh.

Asia Dore (40:47.136)

No, totally. Thank you for explaining. I'm not a huge Taylor Swift fan, so thank you for explaining that, but that's exactly it. I'm aware of what happened, that's exactly it. And it kind of makes you feel like, why bother with brand strategy if I can't control what other people think about me? But at the end of the day, people are gonna feel about you based on...

Ellyn Schinke (40:54.502)

Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (41:01.733)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Asia Dore (41:10.542)

how you show up, the things that you do, the things that you say, the things that you share in order to make people feel that way. And it's really so simple. Like if I showed up to this podcast interview and I was like low energy and I answered your questions with like yes or no answers and I was just like a buzzkill or an asshole. And if I did.

Ellyn Schinke (41:12.123)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (41:17.595)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (41:25.433)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And she didn't swear. As soon as she swore, I was just like, I like her.

Asia Dore (41:35.188)

swear, like all the things, right? You'd probably be like, Asia door does not seem that cool. I don't get it. I'm not a huge fan. I'm probably going to like say that something went wrong with our recording in the not show, the interview, like whatever your, your, your perception of me is going to be based on how I show up. Right. And it's really so simple. That doesn't mean that I'm showing up and manipulating your perception to make you feel a certain way about me. doesn't have to be a manipulative process. It shouldn't be branding. Shouldn't be.

Ellyn Schinke (41:53.798)

Yeah.

Ellyn Schinke (41:58.491)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, because people have a very high bullshit meter too. So definitely don't make it a manipulative process.

Asia Dore (42:04.663)

It's just about.

Asia Dore (42:10.026)

Yes, it's really brand strategy really is just about figuring out how do we want people to feel? How do we want them to feel about us? How do we want them to feel about themselves? How do we want them to feel about the way in which I can help them be the ideal version of themselves? And then fill in the gap, bridge the gap. Okay, what sort of things do I need to do and say and share in order for people to feel the way that I want them to feel? That's really all it is. And that is so applicable regardless of

Ellyn Schinke (42:24.123)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (42:38.171)

Mm-hmm.

Asia Dore (42:38.39)

who you are in your life and what your career is, how your relationships are, whatever it is, that is applicable. So thank you for bringing up the non-entrepreneurs thing.

Ellyn Schinke (42:41.489)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (42:46.973)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Now I have one final question that I thought of, which I'm looking at the time going crap. Is this going to be a really long answer or a really short answer? I don't actually know. But it seems like a good way to kind of wrap up this conversation. What would you say is and is not branding?

Asia Dore (42:55.47)

no.

Asia Dore (43:12.45)

Branding is not manipulating perceptions until people are forced to feel the way you want them to feel. It's not propaganda. It's not controlling a narrative. It's not forcing.

Branding is just saying and doing and sharing the things with integrity in a genuine way that make people feel and think how you would like them to feel and think.

Ellyn Schinke (43:41.425)

I like that. And I like the differentiation that you said that it's not about it even makes me think of sales. It's not about controlling. It's not about pushing. It's not about manipulating. I think a lot of people get the ick. I'm gonna be Gen Z for a second. We get the ick around sales for a second because that's what we think sales is. But if we can run sales even all the parts of business and all the parts of

even just career, if we can run those things through the filter of our brand, if we don't want it to be manipulative, which doesn't have to be. If we want it to be authentic and genuine and that I'm just sharing an opportunity with you, that's exactly what it becomes. I feel like what I'm getting from you is branding is about intention and it's about

you being very clear on what your intention is for the work that you do, the way you want to be seen, the way you want to show up in the world and funneling everything through that intention.

Asia Dore (44:42.722)

That's perfect. Clip that.

That's exactly, because when you're intentional, that doesn't mean you're fake. You know, a lot of people think like, I'm building a personal brand. Like, no, it's not a fake thing. We're not manipulating anything, controlling anything. It's just about what are we intentionally putting out into the world. Very well said.

Ellyn Schinke (44:52.881)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (44:58.437)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (45:05.187)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I really like the thing that you added to there about how I think we can kind of make fun of the whole branding situation. like think about, I would even say think about the conversation that we're having. Like I'm a sweary human. have to like, and people actually laugh when I say I'm sweary when I say that. But like I'm a sweary human. I'm a systems nerd. I was literally telling you that.

I love working behind the scenes and doing and building templates and create like that's really fun for me. I actually really like it when I have a clear day in my schedule and then I can pop on my stories and share, my God, look at this cool thing that I just built like, and that's something that naturally happens. And the more I share it, the more I swear, the more I share my, have like lip sync dance parties before I go work out. I sing in the car all the time and the more I share that stuff.

It doesn't feel unnatural because it's just what I do in my day to day life. And I think that slowly but surely builds a brand and builds what you become known for. Even in my day job now, I am known as the Notion Girl. I am known as the systems nerd. I am known as if you want to figure out a good way to organize this, ask Ellen. Like even in my day job where I don't do like burnout in my day job, I'm a freaking tutor.

Asia Dore (46:08.686)

Yep.

Ellyn Schinke (46:28.163)

in my day job. Like, I don't do anything related to that, but I'm still known as that. So it's like, I feel like maybe we're over complicating branding. It's like, who are you? What are the things that you just naturally share with the world? And yes, maybe the part of branding that we do need a you to help with is the figuring out a way to message that. That's not boring, but that's not over complicated either. And that speaks to other people.

Asia Dore (46:54.946)

Yeah, the cohesion part is where I would say bring in an outside source, just someone who's not in your brain. I mean, I personally wouldn't, but if it helps you organize your thoughts, then that could be a good tool. I think a human working with another human in this type of work is always a good idea because your clients are humans.

Ellyn Schinke (46:59.227)

Mm-hmm, not Chad GPT.

Ellyn Schinke (47:14.267)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (47:18.065)

Yeah, yeah, I like that. Awesome. Okay, I feel like we've come to a really, really good stopping point with this conversation. I honestly feel like I'm probably gonna be reaching out to you at some point to bring you inside a burnout proof business to teach people in there how to leverage their branding to burn out proof their businesses more so TBD on that, but where people find you.

Asia Dore (47:38.19)

mean, my website, asiadore.com, I'm trying really hard not to be on social media lately, which is fantastic, but join my email list. That's kind of where I give my audience all of my love. But I am on the Instagram, I am on the Facebook, if you want to connect with me there. But what I would really like to do is invite your listeners to a master class that I have. It's really just a class on how

Ellyn Schinke (47:51.136)

Hahaha

Ellyn Schinke (47:58.608)

Yeah, absolutely.

Asia Dore (48:04.078)

what things to do, what things you need to know in order to position yourself as an expert to be known for like one definitive thing. That's how we brand ourselves as experts. And it's not about making you choose one thing, especially if you're multi-passionate and can help people in a lot of ways. It's about bringing it all together and packaging it up in a way that means one thing to your ideal clients. That's the thing that's gonna really position you as an authority. And the link to that is just asiadora.com slash masterclass.

Ellyn Schinke (48:06.993)

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn Schinke (48:12.763)

Mm-hmm.

Asia Dore (48:33.742)

It's usually just $7, but I would love to just give it to your audience, your listeners for free. Yeah, with the code burnout proof. And again, I'm sure all that will be in the show notes. Okay.

Ellyn Schinke (48:34.075)

I love simple links.

Ellyn Schinke (48:38.38)

thank you.

Ellyn Schinke (48:44.877)

Yes, yes links, links, Instagram, I'll put the link to the masterclass as well as the code for everybody. So if you wanted to access any of this, you want to follow Asia, you want to go join her email as you want to get the masterclass, which she's giving you guys for free. So you should totally do that. Yeah, show notes. Everything's going to be down in the show notes. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you not only just sharing your story from burnout to branding and everything in between. I just hit my elbow on my desk. I really hope that was allowed.

It wasn't the funny bone, though I'm laughing. Yeah, so I appreciate you sharing all of that with us, sharing your whole story and for giving everybody a gift. I did not know she was doing that, guys. So definitely make sure you take advantage of that. And don't forget to do all the things. Check out the links, like, comment, subscribe. Check us both out on Instagram. But with that, stay your LettLess Achievers and I will talk to you next time. Bye.

Asia Dore (49:16.878)

Okay.