The Million-Dollar Wake-Up Call: Why Hitting Your Revenue Goals Won't Fix Your Burnout
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Amanda Nowak did everything right.
She grew her interior design business to seven figures. Hired a team. Got a 5,000-square-foot warehouse. Hit every milestone we're told means "you've made it."
And then, on vacation in 2021, she looked at her husband and said: "I hate my business. I don't want to do this anymore."
If you've ever felt like you're checking all the boxes of success but still feel miserable, exhausted, and burned out—this one's for you.
The Vanity Metrics We Chase (That Don't Actually Matter)
Here's the uncomfortable truth: most of the "success markers" we obsess over are vanity metrics.
They look good on paper. They sound impressive at networking events. But they don't guarantee fulfillment, freedom, or even financial stability.
The Big Ones We Fall For:
Seven-figure revenue – Sounds amazing, right? Except revenue isn't profit. Amanda was barely breaking even after inventory, payroll, and overhead. Making a million dollars doesn't make you a millionaire.
Hiring your first employee – We're told this is the next level. But what if you don't actually want to manage people? What if your values are peace and freedom—and a team creates the opposite?
Getting a big office or warehouse – It looks professional. It feels like "leveling up." But it's also overhead, commitment, and pressure to fill the space.
10K+ followers – Sure, it unlocks Instagram features. But Amanda landed a million-dollar client from LinkedIn—and it was one person out of 3,500 connections. Quality over quantity, always.
Speaking everywhere – Being visible feels like momentum. But are those gigs converting to revenue? Or are you just exhausted from performing?
Here's what Amanda said that hit me: "I think, especially with women, we feel like we have to portray this outward vision of success all the time. Like I'm everywhere. Everybody wants to talk to me."
But the quiet businesses? The ones no one sees? They're often the most profitable. The machinery part manufacturer with five LinkedIn followers who's an actual millionaire. The solopreneur who works 20 hours a week and makes $250K.
The real question isn't "Am I successful enough?" It's "Does this align with what I actually want?"
Why Passionate People Burn Out More (Not Less)
Remember when Gary Vee said he's never been burned out because "you only burn out if you don't love it"?
Yeah. That's complete bullshit.
Research actually shows that people who are passionate about their work are MORE likely to experience severe burnout. Not less. More.
Why? Because we care so much that we push past every warning sign. We ignore boundaries. We work through exhaustion. We tell ourselves "just one more hour" until it's 11 PM and we haven't eaten dinner.
As Amanda put it: "Lazy people don't get burnt out. They just don't. Because we're doing it. We could say no, but we don't—we just keep going."
Burnout isn't about loving your work. It's about being a high achiever who doesn't know when to stop.
And here's the kicker: Burnout follows you.
Think leaving your corporate job will solve it? Think going into business for yourself means you'll finally have boundaries?
Nope.
You'll just trade a 9-to-5 for a 24/7. Because if you don't fix the habits and the way you operate, you'll recreate the same patterns in every new environment.
Amanda and I are living proof. We both went into entrepreneurship thinking freedom would fix the burnout. Spoiler: it didn't. Not until we fundamentally changed how we work.
What Actually Works: Small Changes, Not Complete Overhauls
So if passion doesn't prevent burnout, and hitting revenue goals doesn't fix it, what does?
Small, sustainable changes. Not crash diets. Not extreme makeovers. Not "self-care weekends" that stress you out more than they help.
The Self-Care Snack Concept
One of my favorite things Amanda and I talked about was the idea of "self-care snacks." Not full meals. Snacks.
If you can't do a full workout at the gym, what's a self-care snack? A 10-minute walk.
If you can't take an hour-long bath, what's a self-care snack? Five minutes of stretching between meetings.
If you can't disconnect for a full day, what's a self-care snack? Watching one YouTube video during your lunch break without guilt.
Here's how Amanda recommends starting:
Pick one micro-habit this week. Just one.
Maybe it's drinking one glass of water when you wake up. That's it. Do that for a whole week until it's automatic.
Next week? Add 10 minutes of meditation at lunch. Not an hour. Ten minutes.
The goal isn't perfection. It's sustainable progress.
Because here's what happens when high achievers try to fix burnout: we make a list of everything we need to do, try to do it all at once, burn out from the self-care, and give up.
Sound familiar? Stop that.
Build slowly. Build sustainably. Build in a way that doesn't require willpower to maintain.
Boundaries With Yourself (Not Just Others)
Here's another uncomfortable truth: most of us are pretty good at boundaries with other people.
You can't book me before 10 AM because my scheduler won't let you. I don't answer emails after 6 PM. I say no to projects that don't align.
But boundaries with ourselves? That's where we struggle.
Does Ellyn work too late? Yes, she does. (Amanda called me out and I'm calling myself out.)
So what do you do?
Create friction.
Amanda's solution when she had an office: the laptop stays at the office. If you want to work at home, you have to do it on your phone—which is harder and less appealing.
Live in a 500-square-foot apartment like me? Put the laptop under your bed. Lock it in a drawer. Make it annoying to access after hours.
The goal is to make it easier to rest than to keep working.
Building the Business You Want, Not the One You "Should"
This is the part that might sting a little.
How much of your business is built on what you think you're supposed to do versus what you actually want?
Amanda's friend had an interior design business and turned down extra work because she didn't want to hire employees. Amanda thought she was being silly. "You can make so much more money if you just hire help!"
Guess who was right? The friend who stuck to her guns and stayed solo.
Here's what to ask yourself:
Do I actually want a seven-figure business, or do I just want to comfortably pay my bills and take vacations?
Do I actually want a team, or would I rather delegate to technology and stay solo?
Do I actually want to be "everywhere" on social media, or would I rather have a quiet, behind-the-scenes business that still serves people deeply?
Do I actually want to work 60-hour weeks, or did I just absorb hustle culture messaging?
There's no wrong answer. But there is a wrong approach: building someone else's version of success and wondering why you're miserable.
Amanda's values were peace and freedom. Her seven-figure business was neither. So she restructured, dropped from 80-hour weeks to 30, and eventually exited entirely to do work that actually aligned.
What are your values? And is your business honoring them—or betraying them?
If you're not sure, start here: Take the Burnout Quiz to identify where your business is draining you most.
You're Allowed to Redefine Success
Here's your permission slip: you don't have to want what everyone else wants.
You're allowed to:
Build a small business that pays you well without a team
Work 20 hours a week instead of 60
Post on Instagram twice a week instead of twice a day
Make $150K and be thrilled instead of chasing $1M
Prioritize freedom over growth
Choose sustainability over scale
Success is only success if it aligns with YOUR values—not someone else's checklist.
And if you're realizing your business is built on "shoulds" instead of "wants"? It's not too late to change it.
Amanda restructured her entire seven-figure operation. I've restructured mine multiple times. You can too.
What To Do Next
If this resonated, here's where to start:
1. Give yourself grace. You're a work in progress. We all are. Even burnout coaches need reminders not to burn out. (Trust me, Amanda and I compared notes.)
2. Pick ONE self-care snack this week. Not ten. One. Make it so small it feels almost silly. Then do it every day for seven days.
3. Audit your vanity metrics. What are you chasing that doesn't actually move the needle on your happiness, fulfillment, or real profit?
4. Get support. Burnout doesn't fix itself. If you're ready to build a business that actually supports your life (instead of consuming it), check out Systems School—my program for solopreneurs who want sustainable systems without the overwhelm.
Or if you're in the thick of burnout and need a custom roadmap, Burnout-Proof Business is my 1:1 intensive for high-achieving entrepreneurs who are done with the hustle.
And if you just want to hear more real talk like this? Go listen to the full podcast episode with Amanda Nowak. We go deep on boundaries, self-care snacks, why passion doesn't prevent burnout, and how to build a business that doesn't require you to sacrifice your sanity.
You can also follow Amanda on Instagram @element.8.coaching or check out her free "What Do I Really Want?" workbook at element-8.com.
The bottom line? Hitting your revenue goals won't fix your burnout. Hiring a team won't fix it. Getting more followers won't fix it.
What will fix it is building a business that aligns with your actual values, honoring your boundaries (especially with yourself), and making small, sustainable changes instead of trying to overhaul your entire life overnight.
You didn't get here by being lazy. You got here by being ambitious, driven, and passionate—and by not knowing when to stop.
So let's stop chasing vanity metrics and start building businesses that feel as good as they look.
Stay relentless (but also, please rest),
Ellyn
About Amanda Nowak
Amanda Nowak is a serial entrepreneur who experienced extreme burnout while building a seven-figure decor business. After making some major changes, she was able to decrease her 70+ hour work weeks to 20, increase profits, and create a life that aligned with her values. Amanda now empowers women to find the space in their lives and businesses to take care of themselves and design fulfilling lives.
Follow Asia: Website | Instagram | LinkedIn
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Transcript:
Ellyn Schinke (00:00.994)
Hello, Amanda, welcome to the Burnout Proof Podcast. How are you doing this morning?
Amanda Nowak (00:05.183)
I'm good, thanks for having me.
Ellyn Schinke (00:07.534)
I'm so excited to talk to you actually. It's not often, y'all know, all you listeners know, it's not often that I have another burnout coach on here. It's usually somebody who has like a completely alternative skill set than mine, but I'm actually really excited to talk to you because I feel like your background's really interesting and all of your different kind of talking points, as I was telling you before this, are super, super interesting and I'm excited for you and I to dive into them. I feel like we're gonna bounce off of each other a lot today.
Amanda Nowak (00:37.281)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (00:37.474)
So let's just kind of start very high level. Tell us a little bit about you and how you got to doing this work. Because I always find that very interesting about talking to fellow burnout coaches.
Amanda Nowak (00:49.673)
Yeah. so yeah, not your average path to coaching. I was an interior designer and I had a, I'd worked in corporate for a few years and then I started my own business where I sold decor. like accessories, all the finishing touches to big senior living companies. And so I did the thing everybody tells you you're supposed to do. Like you grow this business big and you hit the seven figures and everything's supposed to be perfect and great. Right. And, and lovely.
Ellyn Schinke (01:18.318)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (01:19.521)
It wasn't. I was absolutely miserable. I had a straight up meltdown on vacation in 2021 and looked at my husband and was like, I hate my business. I don't want to do this anymore. And my poor husband was like, what? Because... Well, you know, it's the thing where like, obviously he knew I was stressed out, but I don't think he knew that I was so deeply unhapp...
Ellyn Schinke (01:35.266)
like this very lucrative business, you don't want to do it, why?
Ellyn Schinke (01:44.962)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (01:48.449)
and how it just was like things weren't working for me. And so I had been working with a coach. So I went to them and it was like, something has to change. I don't know what to do. And so over the next year, we completely restructured my business. And in that year, I learned a lot of things and I did a lot of like, deep work of like, what do I actually want out of this business instead of being like, I'm just supposed to follow the shark tank of I grow this business big and I sell it and I sit on a beach one day. Like that was just...
Ellyn Schinke (02:16.11)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (02:17.055)
the thing you were supposed to do 13 years ago.
Ellyn Schinke (02:20.076)
Yeah. shit, you're right. That was 13 years ago. God, I feel like my perception of years is so skewed.
Amanda Nowak (02:24.405)
Yeah.
Amanda Nowak (02:31.74)
Well, we always joked it was like the Gary Vee thing of like hustle, hustle, hustle. It was like, you can sleep when you're dead and go, go, go. And I think after COVID that conversation changed quite a bit. But, you know, 2021, was still like, okay, what am I doing here? I feel like I'm going to die. And so yeah, in that year, I changed a lot of things. And I realized that like two of my values were peace and freedom. And I was building this business that was neither of those things.
Ellyn Schinke (02:42.04)
Yeah.
Amanda Nowak (02:59.027)
I had these lovely huge clients that were kind of a, when you work with them, you just take everything they give you because they standardize on you. You can't turn the faucet down and say, you know what, I'm too busy. I can't take these projects. It's no, you have to keep up and add employees and space and all the things to make sure that you can keep them happy. And that was not aligned with what I wanted. I made a lot of changes in that year.
Um, so things finally got to a place where it was more efficient. I was pulled out of the business a lot more. You know, I went from working 70 to 80 hours a week to 30, and I wasn't really needed. It could kind of run without me. I was no longer the bottleneck. that. Um, and, uh, with that free time, a friend of mine asked me to facilitate some workshops for her and she suggested I take a coaching class and I did, and I really loved it. So I started doing this thing of like coaching and running this decor business and.
In August of 2023, it got to a point where I was feeling like I was kind of done with the interior design part. I wanted to do coaching full time or lease was up. So it was kind of a perfect exit point. So I exited that business. Part of it went to another company. The rest I kind of just let die. And then in November of 2023, I launched Elements 8 when then I decided my coaching focus would be helping women that were like me that were in that place that like
outwardly look successful, but inside they're absolutely miserable and helping them figure out, does the business need to change or is it time to do something completely different?
Ellyn Schinke (04:24.206)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (04:30.958)
Yeah, that I love that kind of a story because that was not in the entrepreneurial space, but very similar for me since we don't know each other very well. I also had an unconventional path into coaching. My background's in science. I was actually getting a PhD in microbiology and immunology when I stumbled into coaching and it was a true pretty epic stumble into coaching. And that was exactly how it was for me. It was me learning my own things.
but also through kind of stepping into the coaching space, realizing, my God, I love this. I always say I'm coaching through a monkey wrench into my life because I never expected to love it as much as I did. And it was just like more fulfillment than I'd ever gotten than in science. So I totally resonate with a lot of that. I also really resonate with what you're saying about how you're supposed to build a business versus how you actually want.
to build a business. was actually really ironic. I was talking to one of my clients about this yesterday and she kept saying, she's like, well, you're gonna get up to a point where you just have to hire a team. And I'm like, do you though? Like what about the people who don't actually want the seven figure business? What if business success doesn't mean I have to keep growing and growing and growing and growing my revenue in this exponential like absurd way?
Amanda Nowak (05:40.893)
Thank
Ellyn Schinke (05:54.592)
What if I just want to comfortably pay my bills and be able to go on a vacation every single year and take some time off instead of work a 24 seven? Like how has your approach to like what success actually looks like in your business changed? Because I feel like mine's very different than I always thought it would be.
Amanda Nowak (06:00.961)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (06:10.785)
same. And what's funny is when I started that business, one of my dear friends also had an interior design business. And our old employer had a merger where they offered us like a whole bunch of design work when they had this merger. And she was like, well, I could take on more if I hired, you know, help. But she's like, I don't want to deal with employees. I just want to do it myself. I don't want to have to deal with all the headaches and whatever. And I remember thinking.
Ellyn Schinke (06:18.786)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (06:26.648)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (06:36.91)
preach.
Amanda Nowak (06:39.009)
Oh, silly Aga, why don't you? You can have all these employees and do all these things and take on all this work and make all this money. She was right. She was right the entire time. And I'm so proud of her for sticking to her guns. And but it is because we I think we don't ever ask ourselves what we actually want. It's just what we think we should do like the right way, the way to do it. And then when we finally come back and are like, Oh, this is what I want. Like that is not even close to what I thought. So it's
Ellyn Schinke (06:50.606)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (06:59.522)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (07:05.794)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's so funny because I do feel like in entrepreneurship, I feel like there's two like markers of success you hear about a lot. And I think one of them is like 10K months or whatever, 10K, whatever the number is, like certain number of K months. And I think the other one is hiring your first employee and growing your team. And I...
Amanda Nowak (07:08.67)
It's wild.
Amanda Nowak (07:26.027)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (07:32.994)
That's why I started doing systems so much in my approach to burnout. feel like you and I approach burnout very differently. It's not to say I don't do the stuff that you do, but I'm very heavily systems because I'm a proud solopreneur. I've been a manager. I do not want my business to become excessive people management. Might I hire a VA at one point in time? Yes, but I don't want to have a multi-person team. I delegate to technology.
Amanda Nowak (07:39.712)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (07:55.862)
If technology can't do it, I find out another thing. I like change my approach to how I'm building my business because I don't want to manage people. I just don't. Period.
Amanda Nowak (07:55.968)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (08:04.097)
Mm hmm. Yeah. And that's, and that's like a great realization to have and knowing that because even with me, I realized I was really good at managing two to three people. But when I had any more than that, it was it was too much for my brain. Also, I realized last year I have ADHD. So like that, like now going back and looking at the pieces and like this makes sense why a lot of this didn't work for me.
Ellyn Schinke (08:16.107)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (08:28.869)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I need to like actually go see if I do because I kind of I'm like 90 % sure I do. I think I became very high functioning with it. But like I say all the time, I do not trust my brain. If I don't write it down immediately, it is going off into the ether and getting lost and I will never think of it again. So like I that's part of the reason I systematize is I think it helps me work with how my brain works. I have to write
Amanda Nowak (08:55.358)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (08:56.618)
everything down to an almost an absurd degree. I'm an absurd note taker in that sense. So yes, I agree with you in the neurodivergence side of things. Awesome. Awesome. Okay. Yeah, no, you and I are absolutely on the same page with that. I would love to know, you said something in your intake form and I'm really intrigued about what this is and what you're referring to. And I feel like it kind of riffs off of what we've been talking about recently. You said something about the million dollar wake up call.
Amanda Nowak (09:07.307)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Amanda Nowak (09:26.431)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (09:26.67)
What is that?
Amanda Nowak (09:30.241)
It is the fact that it is this marker that everybody thinks like once I hit it, that's it. Like I have made it. I would, guess I found a statistic recently. It's like 5 % of businesses make it to a million dollars in revenue. So I guess it is a smaller club than I thought, but, um, I think I thought everything would work once I had a million dollars. Like, Oh, like I've like, figured it out and I.
Ellyn Schinke (09:36.139)
Mmm.
Ellyn Schinke (09:47.15)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (10:00.223)
got to that million dollars and everything was not figured out. And also, just because you make a million dollars in revenue does not mean that you're a millionaire. It is far from it. When we were making a million dollars in revenue, we were barely making any profit because we had to buy inventory and I had to pay payroll and insurance, like all these things that I just think it's such a vanity metric sometimes of like, I hit it. It's like, okay, but it's not...
Ellyn Schinke (10:04.034)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (10:24.512)
Yeah.
Amanda Nowak (10:29.887)
It's not the thing we think it is often. And so, yeah, so I mean, like I hit it and nothing was different and I thought it would be.
Ellyn Schinke (10:31.938)
Yeah, yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (10:37.262)
Yeah. What other variations on that have you seen? Because I feel like we're kind of where I feel like the direction we're going on is like the markers of success we think mean success, but in actuality, they are 100 % like a vanity metric. are they are our ego carrying our business. And I feel like we've talked about the monetary side of things, the hiring side of things. Have you ever seen any other ones that are like these unofficial markers of success? We tend to like dangle like carrots in front of ourselves.
Amanda Nowak (10:57.333)
Okay.
Amanda Nowak (11:07.137)
I think it's even like getting a new office or a space. So it's like, Oh, cause like I had a 5,000 square foot warehouse. Like that sounds like, Ooh, but
Ellyn Schinke (11:11.745)
Mmm. That's a good one.
Ellyn Schinke (11:20.782)
in a 500 square foot studio.
Amanda Nowak (11:22.625)
Yeah.
Amanda Nowak (11:26.613)
But, you know, let's see what else. That, what else are vanity metrics? I mean, followers are always a big one on socials, but I joke.
Ellyn Schinke (11:35.22)
Yeah. I've definitely said to myself, if I get to 10k followers, I'll have made it like that kind of a thing. Yeah.
Amanda Nowak (11:43.937)
Yeah, followers are always a big one. And I think about that often with like, actually got a million dollar client from LinkedIn, but it was one person. have 3,500 connections that one person was a really lucky connection.
Ellyn Schinke (11:48.675)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (11:59.33)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (12:04.022)
Yeah, yeah, I feel like that is more of what it's about. And it's so cliche because I feel like we get stuck in the quantity side of things, whether it is team members or monetary or followers. And it really is about the quality. I feel like we like this is what I always struggle with with myself personally. Like, I feel like I rationally understand these things. But then when the emotional side gets into it.
Amanda Nowak (12:12.533)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (12:30.977)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (12:31.038)
that's kind of where I can get lost. Like I rationally understand that these are not external, like these external factors are not markers of success. understand, I'm intelligent enough to understand that that's not true, but the emotional side gets attached to them still. And I feel like that's probably something that a lot of the clients you and I deal with.
Amanda Nowak (12:48.073)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (12:52.692)
are experiencing. Like what has been your experience with that, whether personally or with clients of like, we rationally understand this thing, but emotionally, that's where we get stuck.
Amanda Nowak (13:00.097)
Mm-hmm.
I think it's like that, what do we look like on the outside of what is this view that we're showing everybody? And I think when you're mentioning like those vanity things, think another thing that falls into it too is like when people are getting like speaking gigs or they're showing up at all these things, it's like, I see you everywhere. But are you making money from those things? Or are you just speaking and everybody's like, that was awesome. See you later. So I think it is that.
Ellyn Schinke (13:07.149)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (13:28.398)
Don't call me out like that. Rude.
Amanda Nowak (13:31.807)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (13:37.422)
So rude. No, just kidding.
Amanda Nowak (13:40.555)
Well, cause I think about all of like the quiet businesses, like even mine, like I, never won any awards. I, you I would sponsor things, but I never was like in front of people. very much was behind the scenes and had this big business. And I look at a lot of other people too, where they're like, they are like truly millionaires and they make some like part for machinery and they're not all over the place. They don't, they've got five followers on LinkedIn because somebody at one point said you should probably set this up.
Ellyn Schinke (14:10.018)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (14:10.229)
So, but I think it's, especially with women, think it's this thing we feel like we have to portray this outward vision of success all the time. Like I'm everywhere. Everybody wants to talk to me. Everybody's interested in me. And to be honest, doing a lot of this, I realized like, I like living under the radar. Like I don't need everybody to know what I'm doing all the time. And that quiet part is kind of nice.
Ellyn Schinke (14:29.453)
Mm-hmm.
joked about you calling me out before, but that actually really hits home. I've been doing something this morning. This is kind of part, I think part of the reason why when we were messaging before this and we were like, do we need to reschedule? It's like, no, I'm actually really looking forward to this. I feel like my head this morning has already been in the vein of what you and I were going to talk about today. I've been doing this thing this morning where I'm a big AI person. I love tech in that regard.
And I've been using my AI and my notion systems this morning as a sort of life coach to help me spot some patterns in my own writings of the things that are holding me back. And it was really interesting. One of the things it said, actually it said two things this morning. Y'all are getting like real time data because this was like an hour ago, not even joking. One of the things it said this morning was the first one it said was I turn everything into content.
Amanda Nowak (15:06.369)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (15:28.834)
whether it's a success or a setback, it becomes content and that there's very, very little that I just reserved for myself. And I had never realized that before, but it's true. And actually the irony was that I caught myself on this after I immediately, was like, this has been so interesting. I've been really loved doing this. So what did I fucking do? I went on Instagram.
and said, guys, look what I'm doing this morning. Look how it called me out. This is so fascinating. And I recorded these couple stories showing everybody what I was doing. And then after the fact, I was like, shit, I just did exactly what it told me I've been doing. And I go back on my Instagram stories and I was like, okay, the irony is not lost on me that I literally just did the exact thing that it called me out on doing. So that was the thing number one. And then thing number two was it essentially said, I'm such an enneagram three. It essentially said to me,
Amanda Nowak (16:05.024)
you
Ellyn Schinke (16:21.836)
I had it look up the moments in my whole database and all my journal entries and whatnot that were the times when I was truly happy. And this was kind of a gut check too. It basically said to me, you don't have a lot of these because you seem not to document the moments when you're really happy.
Amanda Nowak (16:42.901)
Oof.
Ellyn Schinke (16:46.478)
Wow, okay. So like I've been in this head space this morning. I think it's just, and my whole tangent is to essentially say, feel like we can get, like you were talking before, and the fact of the matter is I feel like I kind of want a behind the scenes business. I love YouTube, for example. I love that I can create a piece of content, put it out there on the internet.
And I don't have to do anything else. I don't have to sit there and be like on stories promoting it and sharing it everywhere and blah, blah. I've been loving Pinterest. I've been loving what I sort of started to call sustainable marketing strategies that are essentially marketing strategies that put me out there, but they don't require me to be up and on at all times. And I think what I still get stuck in is my introduction into business was an MLM. It was an MLM.
Amanda Nowak (17:34.763)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (17:43.922)
And that was how you operated in an MLM was post every day, interact with people. But you had to be out there and in people's faces. Otherwise you wouldn't have a successful business. And I think I've spent up until this point in time, perhaps until the last like year and a half or so thinking that that was the only way to market myself. But the fact of the matter is I don't give a shit about that. I'm on Instagram because I feel like I lose.
Amanda Nowak (17:46.731)
Yeah.
Amanda Nowak (17:56.457)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (18:12.002)
touch with people when I'm not on Instagram. But I don't really want, I have zero interest in dancing. I love posting memes. I love posting memes. Memes are fantastic. I posted one the other day about how I'm I'm working really hard today because I'm my own sugar mama or sugar daddy, something like that. that one went, that one, I have like 500 likes on that one right now. But like,
Amanda Nowak (18:15.041)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (18:21.621)
Yeah.
Amanda Nowak (18:32.417)
Yeah. I love it.
Ellyn Schinke (18:41.082)
you're making me realize that that's that is the kind of business I want. And I again, rationally know that, but I'm having so much trouble pulling away from and I think it's just habit at this point. I'm having so much trouble pulling away from the business that I feel like I should build.
Amanda Nowak (18:51.457)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (18:57.323)
Yes. Well, and to be fair too, it's like the world we live in has made that such a connected line between us and social media. Like that is your identity, but it isn't. So like I was doing the same thing you were and I decided to think of my social now is like, this is how I help people. This is not me. So like I post things out there. It's people are like, I like the things you post. This was helpful. And I just let it go.
Ellyn Schinke (19:05.463)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (19:08.952)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (19:27.091)
I'm not out there having interact and showing them every single thing I'm doing. It's because every time I think about going off of social media, somebody is like, I really love what you post on Instagram. This one meme was so nice or whatever. So I like that idea of it's the putting things out there that we know are helping people, but not integrating ourselves so deep in it that we're like, but are people liking it? Is this enough people only three people liked it now? What am I going to do? So
Ellyn Schinke (19:30.883)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (19:43.17)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (19:49.837)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (19:54.03)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a really good point. And I actually think one of the best things I did is I actually did take five months off of Instagram. When was that? Early 2024. I want to say it might have been early 2023. If it was early 2023, holy crap, where did the last two years go? But I took five months off of Instagram and I came back because I did. felt it was FOMO in the sense that I felt like I was disconnected from people.
Amanda Nowak (20:13.633)
You
Amanda Nowak (20:23.265)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (20:23.82)
Like I had a friend who had a baby and I didn't even realize she had her baby already because she primarily shared it on Instagram. And it was moments like that of me being like, damn it. Okay. I really do need to be on Instagram. And then it was, it was like, swung the pendulum in the opposite direction for a really long time. So I went from not being on Instagram to being on Instagram way too much. And I feel like my pendulum is starting to swing back in the other direction a little bit. Like I will have
periods of time where I don't post every day. Like I might post twice in the given week or I don't show up on stories every single day. Like if I'm in the thick of deep work, I let myself be in the thick of deep work. And I feel like it's, yeah, I feel like that's kind of a way where exactly what you're talking about of like build the business you want to build as opposed to the business you feel like you should build. And also like no judgment. If you are somebody who's getting a little bit caught up in
Amanda Nowak (21:06.56)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (21:14.369)
Okay.
Amanda Nowak (21:18.741)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (21:21.506)
the externals because like we are force fed. Now Amy Porterfield and Jenna Kutcher and like these are the big like Marie Forleo and these are the big women who are making it in business and look how prevalent they are online. So you have to do the same. And then we forget the fact that they have a team of probably like a couple dozen people that are making it. So it seems like they're online, but they're actually not.
Amanda Nowak (21:46.165)
Yeah. Well, I think it goes back to values too. Like for some people, their value is like, they like that. Like this is fulfilling to them. Like they like interacting with people and their customers and things like that. But for me, I am very much like, like I, I was also going on it too much, but I think it's that finding that happy medium of like, now I schedule all my posts. I go on once a day and I share a few stories. I interact and then I do not go back on there and hopefully.
Ellyn Schinke (21:48.77)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (21:52.578)
Mm hmm. Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (22:04.696)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (22:11.885)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (22:15.925)
Do not go back on there until the next day. Because otherwise, yes, I will get stuck in the scroll and see all the things and it's then it's just too much. But then I can still keep up on people. I can see what's happening. I kind of compared to the thing I've seen pop up a lot with like talking about working on vacation. Everybody feels like when they go on vacation, they should come like you have to completely shut down, not touch any work and never do anything with it.
Ellyn Schinke (22:18.349)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (22:21.773)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (22:26.807)
Yeah.
Amanda Nowak (22:41.793)
And my husband and I are both like, when we go on vacation, we take like half an hour to an hour in the morning to check in with our stuff to be like, is everything good? Because then we have peace of mind for the rest of the day, until the next morning, that everything's fine. Cause otherwise you come back after a week and everything's on fire. And you're like, well, I could have fixed this seven days ago with one email, but now it's terrible. So.
Ellyn Schinke (22:48.876)
Mm-hmm
Ellyn Schinke (23:02.412)
Yeah. Ugh.
I love that you just said that because I used to feel like I'm like the weird burnout coach that like literally the email I sent after I went on because I spent like the first two weeks in June essentially traveling and off the grid and the email I sent to my list after that is I worked on vacation and that's okay. I think I even recorded a podcast on it if I remember correctly. That's exactly what it was like it gave me peace of mind.
Amanda Nowak (23:27.541)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Amanda Nowak (23:35.776)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (23:36.342)
to I would, and frankly, this is you and I have the same value by the way. My value is also freedom. I brought my laptop down to, were at the Disney Resort in Hawaii with my family the first week of June. I brought my laptop down to the adult pool at the Disney Resort and I was doing like tedious shit. It was like copying and pasting of stuff, but it just needed to be copied and pasted. So I was just like, all right, I'm gonna sit here by the adult pool drinking my pina colada.
Amanda Nowak (23:59.519)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (24:02.978)
and I'm gonna copy and paste it. And my mom kept saying, why are you working? Why are you working? I was like, mom, this is literally like the least like mentally intensive work I've probably done in the last six months. Like if there's any vacation work that's okay right now, it's this. And I was just like, do, do, do, do. look at that little kid. They almost slipped and fell. They really like, yeah, like. Yeah, I'm so glad to hear that you said that. I'm so glad to hear that you said that.
Amanda Nowak (24:11.233)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (24:18.443)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (24:28.565)
Yeah, well to your point, I think it's what works for you. think there's so many, it's going back to what we saying, there's so many superlatives of it has to be this way or this way, or you're wrong or it's bad or it's good. And I think it's just what works for you and what makes you feel better. And with burnout too, it is like so much like figuring out what works for the person, because it's not a one size fits all for everybody.
Ellyn Schinke (24:31.821)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (24:36.491)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (24:43.459)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (24:50.348)
Yeah, yeah, there's nothing prescriptive about burnout. I'm curious, because this is something that I always say. I personally believe that burnout is a lot less about overwork than we think it is. Do you agree?
Amanda Nowak (25:03.027)
Mm-hmm. Yes. It is the best example I've ever heard of this. It's that, like, we are the problem. It's the, it's me. Hi.
Ellyn Schinke (25:13.174)
Yes! Yes! I use that all the time! God, this is so validating. I love it. Yeah.
Amanda Nowak (25:22.059)
Because it's us, it's because we're perfectionists, because we want to do a good job. So we do the overwork. Like lazy people don't get burnt out. They just don't, because we're doing it. We could say no, we could say no, but we don't, we just keep going. And it's all of the factors. And same thing, I mean, you can take a high achiever and put them in a job.
Ellyn Schinke (25:30.618)
Yeah, it's the high achievers and the high performers.
Ellyn Schinke (25:41.676)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (25:49.737)
and get burnt out. Put them in a business and they'll get burnt out. Because if you don't fix the habits and the way you do things, it follows you. It's like thinking you're going to run away from it, but it's the same thing.
Ellyn Schinke (26:01.966)
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I feel like you're like my soul sister burnout coach, because yes, I completely agree. And that is perhaps maybe this is why you also went in the direction of helping entrepreneurs. Obviously, your background is in entrepreneurship, so that probably helps as well. But I feel like so many people, I was one of them. I was just like, I'm going to go into business for myself. And then all of sudden, I'm not going to burn out anymore because I'm going to be in control. But.
Amanda Nowak (26:07.488)
Hahaha
Amanda Nowak (26:29.095)
Yes.
Ellyn Schinke (26:30.926)
We trade a nine to five for a 24 seven.
Amanda Nowak (26:34.333)
huh. Yeah. Now you don't have somebody saying, stop at this hour or I need you to do this by this time.
Ellyn Schinke (26:40.031)
Yeah
Yeah. Yeah. And frankly, I mean, I feel like when we're all in corporate America, we get a little bit of a chip on our shoulder of like, don't tell me what to do. Don't tell me to work past this time, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like if somebody gives us too many projects, we go to our boss and we'll be like, this is too many projects. What do want me to prioritize and what do you want me to not get done? Because we've got a little bit of a chip on our shoulder about it because I think that is
perhaps our way of like trying to have some autonomy and some control in a situation that is frankly out of our control. But when you're in business for yourself, we are really terrible at doing that exact same policing, if you will, because it's now, and I think this is where that message, like you mentioned from Gary Vee before, became so problematic. I remember I did a Stitch on TikTok back when I used to actually post on TikTok, I do not anymore.
Amanda Nowak (27:14.475)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (27:37.518)
of an old Gary Vee video where he said, I've never been burned out in my life because you only burn out if you don't love it. And how, yeah, utter bullshit, right? Utter bullshit. And I think we got that messaging for so long that passion prevents burnout. And it does not, literally. And this isn't just, know, Amanda and I.
Amanda Nowak (27:49.249)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (28:01.058)
thinking this from our opinions, there are studies that show that the people who are more likely to be severely burned out are the people who are passionate about the
Amanda Nowak (28:09.075)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, because if we didn't care, we wouldn't work so hard. If we weren't passionate, we'd be like, fine, I don't care.
Ellyn Schinke (28:14.798)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, exactly. How do you like, what are some of your actually I was going to ask that question. I might need to write it down so I don't forget it. Where's a notepad? Whatever. I'll trust my brain as much as I can here. What are some of the most common mistakes you see entrepreneurs make when it comes to burning themselves out? And then I've got a follow up to that that I was going to ask first, but I changed my order.
Amanda Nowak (28:43.503)
man.
Amanda Nowak (28:48.191)
Yes. Okay, there's so many. Not having bound, not having boundaries is a big one. Of it just saying yes to everything, letting people have access to you all the time. That's huge. And then also to follow that up, upholding your boundaries when you do put them in place.
Ellyn Schinke (28:51.191)
Hehehehe
Ellyn Schinke (29:08.142)
That's what I was thinking. I actually feel like it's not so much my boundaries with other people that I struggle with. It's often my boundaries with myself. Like I actually feel like I'm a ninja at boundaries with other people because I personally use technology to help me support my boundaries. Like you can't schedule a call with me before a certain time because my scheduler will not let you. But does Ellen work too late? Yes, she does.
Amanda Nowak (29:16.085)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (29:27.987)
Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. I mean, same. Yes. And so I had to have rituals where it was like, the laptop stays at the office. It does not come home with you. So if you have to do something, you have to do it on the little screen. And that's harder. And that creates friction.
Ellyn Schinke (29:34.858)
Yeah, yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (29:41.048)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (29:46.488)
See, this is where the fact that my office is in my 500 square foot apartment is a little problematic, but.
Amanda Nowak (29:49.575)
Yeah. huh. I know. Yeah. Or you can put the laptop and lock it up somewhere, put it under your bed. I don't know. Again, friction. Where can you put it where you can't get to it? Okay, so boundaries. Let's see, not letting stuff go. There's things that we think are, I always say not my circus, not my monkeys.
Ellyn Schinke (29:58.434)
Yeah. Yeah. Friction. Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (30:13.516)
Love that expression.
Amanda Nowak (30:15.849)
Is it your circus? Is it your monkeys? I also, I do reiki. I'm a reiki master. Did that on the side during my break. And one of the things it's like when you feel like, you know, sometimes you feel that energy or like what's bothering me. And sometimes it's like, so it's like not me through me. If this isn't mine, this is not my thing to deal with. So think there's a lot of things as entrepreneurs for like, but I have to be involved in this or I have to do this thing. It's like, do you, do you have to do that thing? Is that yours?
Ellyn Schinke (30:24.405)
Ayyye
Ellyn Schinke (30:36.375)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (30:43.66)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (30:45.011)
Is it not?
Ellyn Schinke (30:46.094)
It's also amazing how you can change the energy of how something feels when you just simply change it to, and especially with entrepreneurs, it's not a have to, it's a choose to. Like it is truly your choice. And I think the energy changes when you go to choose to instead of have to. Yeah.
Amanda Nowak (30:55.669)
Yes.
Amanda Nowak (31:01.921)
Yeah, it's the shoulds. I should be doing this. I should be doing that. Uh huh. Yes. And so letting go of those shoulds like, but what do you want? Do you have to do this thing to get what you want? Most likely no. So, cause yeah, the shoulds like you should be working so many hours and you can sleep when you're dead. No, you can just work how many hours you want. Take on as many clients as you want. They'd be perfectly happy.
Ellyn Schinke (31:03.606)
Mm-hmm. Lee's favorite word in the human language right there.
Ellyn Schinke (31:16.12)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (31:24.622)
Also, I like to sleep, so.
Amanda Nowak (31:29.473)
Yes, yes. Uh huh. Same. Our house also, we like to sleep. We do not have human children. We have one dog and that is a conscious decision of because we need to be able to sleep.
Ellyn Schinke (31:41.006)
She really are my burnout spirit animal. I'm same. actually, I mean, I'm single, but I don't really want to have kids. I want a fur baby. And I actually think I'm going to get the same kind of dog my aunt has because I love her dog. It's like a little runt, cocker, spaniel. And they have like that permanent little like kind of sad face. So they're so cute.
Amanda Nowak (31:51.519)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (31:55.947)
That's awesome.
Amanda Nowak (32:00.851)
Mm-hmm.
Ours is a mutt and she is part cock or spaniel. She's very cute.
Ellyn Schinke (32:06.83)
Is she? I just love them. They have such good temperament and I live in 500 square feet so we can't have a crazy animal in this very small studio apartment I live in. Sick. Okay. Any other things that you feel like you need to highlight? Because I know we could probably, I mean, I'm basically asking you to consolidate like your entirety of your coaching philosophy down to bullet points.
Amanda Nowak (32:17.952)
Yeah.
Amanda Nowak (32:22.817)
Bye now.
Amanda Nowak (32:29.569)
I know. And I think the other thing is just like putting ourselves first. It's so, especially to like after you have a team and you know, all these responsibilities and clients, it's hard to say I need to take this morning for myself instead of just jumping in everything and be like, I have to get this client work done and then I have to do this and I have to meet with somebody because I have to keep things moving. It's like that, you know, putting your oxygen mask on first because if you don't, are
Ellyn Schinke (32:35.182)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (32:53.262)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (32:57.346)
Yeah.
Amanda Nowak (32:59.457)
not useful to anybody. you know, it's that thing I look at when I was burnt out. I mean, do you think I was useful to anybody? I was not productive. I was not getting anything done. I wasn't good to my team. wasn't a good wife. I wasn't a good anything. And so it is just like make it feel like we've gotten better with this over the last couple of years. But that whole like the self care thing like
Ellyn Schinke (33:01.033)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (33:23.415)
Yeah.
Amanda Nowak (33:27.667)
It doesn't have to be going to the spa for a week. It can literally be like you give yourself 10 minutes in the morning to like just sit and drink your coffee mindfully and have quiet and listen to the birds. It doesn't have to be drastic. Those little things make a big difference.
Ellyn Schinke (33:34.944)
Yeah. Amen. Yeah.
Yeah, like the things that are self-care, like slow mornings are self-care. Like watching the YouTube video during your break instead of feeling like you need to check emails. That is actually a form of self-care. And it's funny because there's things that I feel like generally get shit on as forms of self-care and then things that are societally encouraged. Like we can numb with work.
Amanda Nowak (33:47.617)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (34:08.908)
we can numb with fitness. Those are things that are societally very accepted that we numb with. And I think to your point that you just said a second ago about like when you should and should not be working and blah, blah, this is a pet peeve I have with entrepreneurs. I think probably 90 % of people go into entrepreneurship because they want some sense of freedom. I would say freedom probably makes its way into every entrepreneur's values in some way or another, whether even if you don't use the word freedom per se, there's an element.
Amanda Nowak (34:09.673)
Hmm.
Amanda Nowak (34:15.7)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (34:37.857)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (34:38.382)
of it in there. Like why else would we choose this life if not for the freedom it gives us? And I think what we don't appreciate in that is you also then have the freedom to choose what your day-to-day schedule looks like. I've actually recently, just because I know myself, been mega front loading my schedule with self care. Like I'll wake up in the morning and sometimes I don't actually start working until like 10, 11, 12.
Because I know if I wait until the end of the day to try to do self care, that shit's not gonna happen. I'm gonna get distracted by something else and I'm not gonna do any self care. So I've been trying to front load it into my day. there was such a part of me for so long that chafed against that. There was like, no, you need to start working by eight, nine. Like what a bad business owner you are that you're not starting your day. Like, no, this is your business. You get to work whatever fucking work hours you wanna work.
Amanda Nowak (35:09.567)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (35:29.537)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (35:34.318)
Clearly I'm a sweary person, sorry. like, feel free to swear. Yeah, that's like a pet peeve of mine that I feel like a lot of entrepreneurs, like they believe it. It's again, it's that my rational brain understands this, but my emotional brain just won't.
Amanda Nowak (35:34.911)
Yeah, same.
Amanda Nowak (35:53.314)
Yeah, well, in the going back to something you said, it's like the acceptable numbing and the not acceptable. It's like food, like food too. And alcohol to a point like there's now alcohol slowly. Yeah, I grew up in a restaurant family and my husband has a catering business. So I got you. But yeah, it's fascinating how it's like, well, this is fine, but this isn't. And yeah, it's like, it's fine to work.
Ellyn Schinke (36:00.267)
Ooh, yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (36:06.22)
as there's a wine rack right behind my head.
Ellyn Schinke (36:18.925)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (36:21.793)
but it's not okay to do this. you know, too, it is like that taking care of yourself, because I go back to 2021, I had a point where, yeah, I wasn't eating right, I wasn't exercising. I was like, my favorite thing to do is I'd be out running errands, and I would get like a candy bar to eat for lunch. Like, you know, and it was just because like, I have to eat something and this is here and it'll make me feel better.
Well, I threw myself into insulin resistance at the end of that year. Cause all of a sudden I'm like, why did I, why am I gaining all this weight? That's weird. And of course it took a while to figure it out, but because I'd messed up my body so badly by just rushing around and not, not taking care of myself. So comes back to bite you at some point.
Ellyn Schinke (36:53.805)
Bye.
Ellyn Schinke (37:05.837)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
It really does. And I think the flip side of that is, and I think this will kind of lead in nicely to the last question I have for you, is I think, this is again where my AI life coach called me out this morning, is our tendency to, like, I could look at this conversation that we're having right now and immediately go into self-critical thinking and being like, God, there's all this shit that I know I need to do that I'm not doing and I need to get my shit together because I'm just not taking care of myself.
the way a burnout coach should, you know? I'm sure you probably experienced this as well, that it's really easy to look at our lives and look at all of the shit that we're not doing and get really mad at ourselves. But the grand scheme of things, I've been doing this a lot lately, which is a big reason why when I DM'd you this morning, I'm like, no, I'm actually really looking forward to this. Let's please still record this morning, is I feel like I've been in that mindset a lot this week of just being really,
Amanda Nowak (37:54.241)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (38:11.574)
down on myself and really mad at myself for all of the shit that I'm not doing. But in the grand scheme of things, I'm so much better than where I was. In the grand scheme of things, I'm not overworking and shitting myself all the time. In the grand scheme of things, I'm actually doing a lot of things that are filling my cup. And I'm getting at the point that we need to pat ourselves on the back.
way more often. There's always gonna be more shit you could be doing. Whether we're talking self care mindset or just like your freaking to do list, there's always more shit that you could be doing. But let's like actually start recognizing all of the stuff that you're doing right. Because if you're burned out, you're probably a high achiever, a high performer. If you're listening to a podcast on this crap, then you're probably somebody who is like a lifelong learner and you want to improve. There's probably so much shit that you're doing right.
Amanda Nowak (38:36.449)
and
Amanda Nowak (39:05.652)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (39:06.126)
And I think way too often we focus, I'm preaching to the choir here and I'm talking to myself too, we just need to focus less on the shit that we're not doing and focus more on the shit that we are doing.
Amanda Nowak (39:12.981)
you
Amanda Nowak (39:18.623)
Yes, there's a book called The Gap and the Gain. Have you read that?
Ellyn Schinke (39:21.87)
I like that book. Yeah, it's been a while. I could probably reread it.
Amanda Nowak (39:26.037)
Yeah, but that's exactly that point of like, when we look back and see how far we've come, it's like, oh my gosh, I can't believe we've done all that. But if we keep moving that goalpost, and it's like, but look how far I still have to go. It's like, look how far we've come. Like, that's amazing. And yes, we should celebrate that because that's the other thing as entrepreneurs do. We never celebrate anything. just like, yeah, okay, that's fine. And we minimize it. And it's like, but now I have to do this thing. And I have so many things to do.
Ellyn Schinke (39:43.576)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (39:50.112)
On to the next. to the next.
Amanda Nowak (39:55.133)
And yes, I agree with you. Sometimes I sit there and I'm like, you know, coach Amanda would be telling me something to not do this thing or.
Ellyn Schinke (40:04.696)
need to do that to myself too. What would Coach Ellen tell you right now, Ellen?
Amanda Nowak (40:10.913)
I always joke there's that line from Alice in Wonderland. It's like, give myself very good advice, but I seldom follow it. It reminds me.
Ellyn Schinke (40:20.184)
The sheer number of times I've recorded a podcast where I'm like, guys, this is as much for me as it is for you. Because I will often joke, and I'm interested to see if you feel the same way. I joke all the time. like, I feel like I'm the worst burnout coach ever because I know so much of the stuff that I should be doing. But I also am in a lot of ways my ideal client because my natural tendency, this is why I personally believe this work never stops. Because as we were saying before,
Amanda Nowak (40:26.751)
huh.
Ellyn Schinke (40:47.944)
This is our natural tendencies. This is just how high achievers and high performers operate. Like my natural tendencies are always to go back to the people pleasing and the lack of boundaries and the overwork and the not prioritizing self-care. That is naturally how Ellen operates. And so I often need the very reminders that I tell my clients. Do you find that too?
Amanda Nowak (40:52.769)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (41:07.457)
Uh huh. Yes, yes, all the time. And I know like when we coach, we're not supposed to talk about ourselves, but sometimes I'll be like, I totally understand where you're coming from. I do the same thing.
Ellyn Schinke (41:18.41)
Yeah, yeah. And it's like, I, this is where I kind of find, feel like I feel like I ride the line between coach and consultant sometimes because I'm like, sometimes I think we need that relatability to know that like our coach has been there. Like, I'm not just saying this, I've read this in a book, so therefore you should do it. Like, no, like I do this. I feel you.
Amanda Nowak (41:26.699)
same.
Amanda Nowak (41:32.117)
Yes. Yes.
Amanda Nowak (41:40.185)
Yes. Well, and I think that's why people love you as a coach because you have experienced it. And that's the thing. Well, one of the reasons I got into coaching is one of my very first coaches was not an entrepreneur. And he kept telling me these things. He was like, well, just do this and just do that. I remember thinking, yes, I remember thinking like, you've never gotten through this. You have no idea how hard this is. And so I,
Ellyn Schinke (41:45.76)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, same.
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (41:56.428)
As if it's that simple.
Ellyn Schinke (42:03.598)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Nowak (42:05.921)
when I got into coaching entrepreneurs, I'm like, yeah, I want to be that trusted space where I can say, know what this is like. And I know how terrible this can be or how tough it can be. And I can like empathize with you. And I'm not just like, can you also I will never say just do this thing because
Ellyn Schinke (42:12.002)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (42:15.618)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (42:21.254)
Right, that actually was the part of that that I was just like, as clearly you're guy because you do not understand the like internal monologues that are going through a woman's head. You don't get it. Everything. It's not that simple. Period.
Amanda Nowak (42:32.533)
I mean, just minimizes everything. So no just, no. But I always wanted to be able to understand where people were coming from and to say, you know, I understand this is tough. How can we make this more easy? How can we break this down knowing that that's how it works and not just do this thing or just because I remember it was like, just hire somebody. I'm like, sir, there's about 20 steps that go into hiring somebody. Like I can't
Ellyn Schinke (42:48.814)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (42:55.084)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (43:01.378)
Yeah.
Amanda Nowak (43:02.261)
just walk in a street and like, you want to work for me? I could, it would be a disaster. But it was minimizing so many things. And so, yeah, that's why.
Ellyn Schinke (43:05.686)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (43:10.83)
It's like when my family's like, will just start dating somebody and I'm like, yeah, I'll just like walk into the gas station and be like, who wants to date me? So simple, right? So simple. So if we kind of had to wrap this up with, I'm trying to condense my question because I feel like my questions and my initial question was another one that could turn into like, here's eight bullet points that we could talk about for another 20 minutes. If you had to kind of leave people with some...
Amanda Nowak (43:19.99)
huh. Yeah. huh. Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (43:38.99)
action steps of these are things like if the mindsets we've been talking about, the hangups we've been talking about, like all of the stuff that we've been talking about is like mega resonating with a person that's listening to this. What are some of the things that are kind of your go-to takeaways and action steps that you would recommend to them?
Amanda Nowak (43:56.001)
Um, first is give yourself some grace. Like we are all a work in progress. Nobody is perfect. We also don't want to be perfect because that's boring. Um, and then it's just like taking small steps. I know as us high achievers are very much like, I'm going to make a list. I'm right on everything I need to do. And then this week I'm going to figure it out and I'm just going to do it. That doesn't work long-term. I compare it to like, you know, I grew up in the eighties and nineties of diet culture. It's like, Oh, we're all going to go on a crash diet.
Ellyn Schinke (43:59.352)
Preach.
Ellyn Schinke (44:11.819)
you
Amanda Nowak (44:25.409)
lose 20 pounds and then gain it all back because it's not sustainable. So it's the small micro things that you can change. So this week, maybe it's, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to drink one glass of water when I wake up in the morning. And I'm going to do that for a whole week so that I keep drinking that one glass of water in the morning. And then next week it's, I'm going to give myself time to meditate at lunch for 10 minutes. Okay. It's not, I'm going to meditate. I'm going to drink the water. I'm going to build my entire website.
It's the breaking it down into tiny pieces so that it is sustainable and you can keep going and that you are not burning yourself out trying to get out of the burnout.
Ellyn Schinke (44:59.011)
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn Schinke (45:05.3)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, if your your self-care becomes a source of stress, you're not doing it, right? Yeah, I love that. I love that. Yeah, I think that's that is a I think a common mistake that a lot of people make is I just need to self-care the shit out of myself to get out of burnout. No, no, honestly, that's not feasible for most of us. You've got responsibilities. You've got a job to do. Like, yeah, the
Amanda Nowak (45:11.059)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (45:32.92)
I have somebody who calls them self-care snacks. have a friend who always calls them self-care snacks. Like if you can't start with it, I know, right? It's not great. If you can't do a full blown workout at the gym, what's a self-care snack? If you can't spend an hour disconnecting at the end of the day, what's a self-care snack? That's beautiful. I love that. I need to have you back on this so we can just be like, burnout coach real talk. Like you and I just.
Amanda Nowak (45:37.493)
I love that.
Amanda Nowak (45:58.689)
You
Ellyn Schinke (46:02.754)
going back and forth about, yeah, I've done this shit. yeah, I've done this shit. yeah, me too. What's something in the industry that you think is bullshit? This, like, I feel like you and I could have a very reoccurring.
Amanda Nowak (46:14.081)
you
Ellyn Schinke (46:16.682)
about that kind of stuff. That would actually be fun. That's something that ends up fitting into the schedule and you're down. We might need to make that happen. Like burnout bullshit segment. That would be hilarious. Okay, but in the meantime, until we actually do this lovely segment idea that's now lurking in my brain, where are some places people can find you?
Amanda Nowak (46:25.119)
I'd love to.
Love it.
Amanda Nowak (46:39.713)
they can find me on Instagram element dot eight dot coaching. and.
Ellyn Schinke (46:45.582)
link down below if you missed the dots. I'll put the link below in the show notes.
Amanda Nowak (46:50.407)
And if you go to the website, element-number8.com, you can see all of the things. And there's also a fun freebie, the What Do Really Want workbook.
Ellyn Schinke (47:01.998)
And actually, I was creeping on your website for this, so I'm going to shout out something that I thought was super cool. You have a Entrepreneurs Retreat at Home kit. I might be downloading that at some point soon because I love that idea. I actually take myself on what I call a CEO retreat. Usually sometime between Christmas and New Year's or if the costs are too high, depends on what days of the week those land. I'll do it the first week of the New Year.
Amanda Nowak (47:05.345)
you
Amanda Nowak (47:12.255)
I do.
Awesome.
Amanda Nowak (47:20.554)
Yeah.
Ellyn Schinke (47:31.264)
and it's kind of my little reset button before I go into the next year. But I like this because that's expensive.
Amanda Nowak (47:31.509)
Yeah.
Amanda Nowak (47:39.033)
Yes, and that was the whole point. Like I linked it to a blog that was like a retreat in this economy. And so it's very much a plug and play. It has a whole bunch of ideas of things you can do throughout your day and how to structure it. And yeah, it could be a morning, an afternoon, a couple of days, but you can do it from anywhere.
Ellyn Schinke (47:51.192)
Love.
Ellyn Schinke (47:55.286)
Yeah. She liked how I was like, I stalked your website and this was cool. And guys go check that out because it's, it is, it's cool. I'll link it down below. That's the link I'll provide from her website. Cause I just thought that was such a cool idea. Okay. So yeah, Instagram website, check out your, your freebie. She's got a lovely little resources and a get started section. You also have a very calming website. I like your colors. So if you just want to go check out her website, yeah. Yeah.
Amanda Nowak (47:59.211)
Yeah.
Amanda Nowak (48:02.985)
Appreciate it.
Amanda Nowak (48:18.229)
Thank you. That was my goal.
Ellyn Schinke (48:22.562)
See, I feel like I have really bright colors because my approach has always been like, I know burnout sucks as a topic, so we're gonna try to make it as fun and you're not alone and I get you as humanly possible, so I have really bright colors. Yeah, maybe mine should be bring it down, but that's also just generally not my personality.
Amanda Nowak (48:36.319)
Miners bring it down.
Amanda Nowak (48:43.297)
Now that would go against who you are. So it would. I love it.
Ellyn Schinke (48:46.008)
It would be inauthentic. Yes, it would be. Well, I loved chatting with you. I'm so glad we did this. I'm so glad you're like my first actual other burnout coach that I brought on here. And I actually do love it because you and I do have, we literally just highlighted it with our websites. We do have different styles. We do have different areas of focus. I'm not so much of a rakey person and you have that background. So people want that they go to you, like not to me. And that's chill. That's so cool.
Amanda Nowak (48:55.84)
you
Amanda Nowak (49:02.39)
Yeah.
Amanda Nowak (49:10.401)
Yeah.
love the woo woo.
Ellyn Schinke (49:15.564)
Yeah, I'm a little, that's the scientist in me. I'm like a little, not like woo-a-verse, but like not fully bought into the woo-woo. Some woo-woo I can get into, but not all of it, not all of it. Well, thank you again. I appreciate you being here so much. If we end up doing that, I mean, we might need to do like a quarterly, let's call out the burnout bullshit call if you're down. That might be something that we move forward with, because I think that sounds like a lot of fun. Awesome. Well, thank you again, everybody.
Amanda Nowak (49:30.401)
Yeah, thank you.
Amanda Nowak (49:40.705)
Absolutely, I love it.
Ellyn Schinke (49:43.938)
Go check out the show notes, get your links. And with that, stay relentless achievers, and I will see you next week. Bye.
